Author Topic: DEC and CIA  (Read 6126 times)

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Offline GreenArmychick

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DEC and CIA
« on: May 04, 2018, 16:53:38 »
Applied for CIA few weeks ago.
Diminished Earning Capacity - DEC. 
Does DEC means CIA will be approved? any one deemed to haveDEC, without being eligible for CIA

Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 07:35:43 »
Does that mean you're going to be a spy?  ;D

https://www.cia.gov


But seriously, what's ClA??

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 09:13:44 »
CIA is Career impact allowance. DEC is diminished earnings capacity.

If you have DEC you will more than likely get CIA. Usually you need to be granted CIA first to get DEC.

If you don't have either you will have to wait for CIA to be granted then apply for DEC.

For better clarification here is the policy for the CIA and supplement. http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/2126

Here is the DEC policy. http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/1971
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 16:05:14 by Teager »

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 08:46:14 »
CIA is Career impact allowance. DEC is diminished earnings capacity.

If you have DEC you will more than likely get CIA. Usually you need to be granted CIA first to get DEC.

If you don't have either you will have to wait for CIA to be granted then apply for DEC.

For better clarification here is the policy for the CIA and supplement. http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/2126

Here is the DEC policy. http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/1971
i
interesting.  CM working on DEC now. I just got a call from CVVRS saying I am not able to be gainfully employed. The DEC process almost completed.  My CM just applied for me for the CIA not long ago. looks like DEC may be done before CIA. I don't see anywhere that the CIA must be in place before DEC.

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 10:35:29 »
i
interesting.  CM working on DEC now. I just got a call from CVVRS saying I am not able to be gainfully employed. The DEC process almost completed.  My CM just applied for me for the CIA not long ago. looks like DEC may be done before CIA. I don't see anywhere that the CIA must be in place before DEC.

A lot including myself had to get CIA before CM would do DEC. DEC can happen fast once paperwork is done only took a week for me once all submitted. You then have to apply for the supplement which is on the CIA form. FYI it's about a 6 month wait to actually receive your money if approved for CIA/supp from what I have been reading but it is back dated to date of application.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 10:45:52 »
A lot including myself had to get CIA before CM would do DEC. DEC can happen fast once paperwork is done only took a week for me once all submitted. You then have to apply for the supplement which is on the CIA form. FYI it's about a 6 month wait to actually receive your money if approved for CIA/supp from what I have been reading but it is back dated to date of application.

Paperwork done from the March of Dimes.  What happens after their opinion/report is completed - They look at all facets of problems, including own doctor, specialist as well as their own evaluations physical and psychosocial. What does CM do with this report? how do they make their decisions from that if report says not able to be gainfully employed?  is it still in CM's hands/decision or do they go by report only?

Back to CIA, and supplement and ELB, how is that all going to change with new pension for life system next year? so many unknowns

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 10:56:44 »
CM brings all reports to a team of medical professionals and they will come to a decision for DEC. Since you are unable to work you will more than likely be deemed DEC.

For PFL...
So once you receive CIA and supplement your CIA grade will be protected and you will be automatically put on the additional pain and suffering benefit which will be tax free. If you are receiving the supplement that will also be protected and you will still receive that however anyone deemed DEC after April 1 2019 will not receive the supplement as it will be eliminated. Those that are DEC may also be eleigiable for a 1% pay raise if you have under 20 years of service. So 1% for each year until you would have hit 20 years in the CAF.

ELB will still be the same amount it's just rolled  into a few other things and renamed. VAC says you will receive the same amount you receive now before offsets for all benefits possibly more.

Scroll to the very bottom there is Q&A there for each benefit that explains how they are going to do business under the PFL.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/pension-for-life

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2018, 11:01:56 »
CM brings all reports to a team of medical professionals and they will come to a decision for DEC. Since you are unable to work you will more than likely be deemed DEC.

For PFL...
So once you receive CIA and supplement your CIA grade will be protected and you will be automatically put on the additional pain and suffering benefit which will be tax free. If you are receiving the supplement that will also be protected and you will still receive that however anyone deemed DEC after April 1 2019 will not receive the supplement as it will be eliminated. Those that are DEC may also be eleigiable for a 1% pay raise if you have under 20 years of service. So 1% for each year until you would have hit 20 years in the CAF.

ELB will still be the same amount it's just rolled  into a few other things and renamed. VAC says you will receive the same amount you receive now before offsets for all benefits possibly more.

Scroll to the very bottom there is Q&A there for each benefit that explains how they are going to do business under the PFL.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/pension-for-life

I'm confused because wasn't that same medical professional team already involved in writing/submitting their professional opinion for March of Dimes functional/psychosocial/vocational testing? sounds/look like duplication

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 11:17:48 »
My process was different as my voc rehab was under Sisip so no involvement with March of dimes. I only required a medical report from my doctor for VAC to make there decision.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 22:36:50 »
So DEC all done. CIA and CIA supplement applied too.
I realize waiting for award can take upward to a year but how about CIA? Are wait times same or quicker?

Are CIa and supplement going to be protected next year? The way I read the policy, it sounds a but iffy

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 08:06:39 »
So DEC all done. CIA and CIA supplement applied too.
I realize waiting for award can take upward to a year but how about CIA? Are wait times same or quicker?

Are CIa and supplement going to be protected next year? The way I read the policy, it sounds a but iffy

Expect a wait of 3 to 7 months for approval but CIA and supp will both be approved at the same time for you.

They will be protected but the CIA amount will change a bit as it will be tax free but your grade level will be protected.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 08:57:03 »
Then I wonder what these words mean
 "amounts protected until equal to or less than IRB amount payable".
 Seems counterintuitive

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 13:12:41 »
It does but I had it explained that IRB amounts could change up or down with future goverments. Basically your supp and CIA are safe. What I worry about are any re assessments and a change in any criteria which then can cause a loss of benefit or lower grade. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 21:09:28 »
Right, reassessments.
I'm at 93% right now. what's the cut-off for no more reassessment?
have a couple more claims to put in yet.
This new PFL is not looking good at all. 

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 09:46:56 »
Right, reassessments.
I'm at 93% right now. what's the cut-off for no more reassessment?
have a couple more claims to put in yet.
This new PFL is not looking good at all.

Sorry, I meant reassessment for your CIA. For me I was bumped from grade 3 to 2 because of time served. But VAC is removing the time served piece from the policy so if I get reassessed I will be bumped back down to a grade 3.

As for reassessment of injuries/illness if they keep getting worse you can keep on doing them. If you have more claims and Max out at 100% you still need to put the claims in as you will not get any more money for them but VAC will cover any medical costs associated with that injury/illness.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2018, 09:56:09 »
I'll likely be at the lowest CIA grade anyways as I had 20 years in.
I was speaking of re-assessments for DEC in 2 years. I think if 100% no DEC reassessment required. You'd think 93% would be enough tho.
Thanks for help :)

Offline CampCricket

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2018, 18:29:17 »
I am in a similar situation as Armychick. My case manager recently started the process for DEC. My physician and psychiatrist both filled out reports stating I was medically unsuitable to return to work. I am at 95% according to VAC on my disability rating. I am in receipt of CIA level 3. I was deemed totally disabled by Health Canada, Service Canada and SISIP LTD. I currently receive CPP disability pension along with my CF pension. I attempted a RTW program with the Public Service where they made significant accommodations for my medical limitations... but was unsuccessful (my medical issues deemed me unreliable and a liability/safety issue)... so I feel comfortable saying I should meet the DEC eligibility. That being said - there is still a requirement for re-evaluation every 2 years? And if so, is this still true if in receipt of CPP Disabilty?

Armychick, please keep me informed when your DEC actually goes through. That way I have a better idea of the timeline. I am hoping to have DEC approved with enough time to apply for the CIA Supplement before April 2019.

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2018, 18:41:07 »
I am in a similar situation as Armychick. My case manager recently started the process for DEC. My physician and psychiatrist both filled out reports stating I was medically unsuitable to return to work. I am at 95% according to VAC on my disability rating. I am in receipt of CIA level 3. I was deemed totally disabled by Health Canada, Service Canada and SISIP LTD. I currently receive CPP disability pension along with my CF pension. I attempted a RTW program with the Public Service where they made significant accommodations for my medical limitations... but was unsuccessful (my medical issues deemed me unreliable and a liability/safety issue)... so I feel comfortable saying I should meet the DEC eligibility. That being said - there is still a requirement for re-evaluation every 2 years? And if so, is this still true if in receipt of CPP Disabilty?

Armychick, please keep me informed when your DEC actually goes through. That way I have a better idea of the timeline. I am hoping to have DEC approved with enough time to apply for the CIA Supplement before April 2019.

Your DEC decision should be rather quick. Mine was done within a week of my case manager having the paper work. That being said I've heard some decisions taking a lot longer. Once I applied for supplement it took a month to get approved just FYI for you.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2018, 18:43:22 »
Mine was approved within a few weeks.  CIA application was put in shortly after, still waiting for decision, which is due mid-July IF  they stick to the 12 weeks rules.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2018, 08:30:29 »
Another question would be:
I have one year reserve class C for which I paid pension back and 20 years reg force. I reqd for CIA and supplement eligibility that career less than 25 years but also read from many 20 year career. Which is it?
I am DEC and 93% disabled dual client.

Offline CampCricket

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 18:14:07 »
Another question would be:
I have one year reserve class C for which I paid pension back and 20 years reg force. I reqd for CIA and supplement eligibility that career less than 25 years but also read from many 20 year career. Which is it?
I am DEC and 93% disabled dual client.

How many years did you serve in the reserves? VAC counted all my class A, B, and C time the same in regards to CIA. From my understanding the 20 years is for those under the old veterans charter and 25 is for those that are under the new veterans charter. I'm not sure how it works for those that have VAC pension conditions under both. All my VAC claims were filed after 2006 so all my decisions fall under the NVC - hence 25 year bench mark is used for me (even though I enrolled in the 90s).

Also, from their decision letter when the PIA changed to CIA - I was told that I didn't meet the criteria for an increase in grade level as I had more than 20 years (my years of service was 25 years of CF time but actually 12 years of pensionable service - VAC went with my CF time). So from that letter - it would appear that VAC stops counting after 20 years of CF service in regards to grade levels on CIA). I will be curious to find out if they use the same criteria under the new changes that are coming out in APril of 2019 - and how the 1% for each year short of 25 years will work out... will the actually use pensioned time or service time? Communication from VAC to me has indicated that they are currently working that out and acknowledge that there is a problem those serving in other government departments, the reserves, those that took special leave... etc - that are penalized under the current program - and so they will let me know closer to April of next year how this other types of service and leave will impact the calculation.

I hope this helps.

Online Teager

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 19:08:50 »
I received this e-mail from VAC today in response to concerns and confusion around having the CIA Supplement and grade levels once the PFL kicks in.

Quote

Thank you for your review and comments on the proposed regulatory amendments to support the Pension for Life benefit package. I hope the additional information below helps to answer your questions.

 

No Veterans in receipt of the CIA Supplement will receive less than this amount. the amount(s) of Earnings Loss Benefit, Retirement Income Security Benefit, and Career Impact Allowance Supplement a veteran is eligible for before offsets, prior to the implementation of the Income Replacement Benefit are being protected on the coming into force, and will be annually indexed.

 

With respect to grade levels, individuals who are in receipt of CIA before April 1, 2019 will automatically transition into APSC at the same grade level they were receiving for CIA. For this group, they will remain at this deemed grade level, even if they should have been reassessed at a lower grade due to earnings capacity impacts no longer being considered under the APSC. In other words, the grade level for this group will be protected for as long as the Veteran continues to receive the benefit. While the concept of "grade level" will not appear in legislation, this protection is nonetheless set out in the transitional provisions relating to the APSC in Bill C-74 as subsection 133(4). Note that while the grade level for these Veterans will never be decreased, they will still have the right to a higher grade level if their condition worsens.

 

I hope this information helps to clarify some of your concerns.

 Respectfully,

Director, Cabinet Business Unit

Veterans Affairs Canada

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2018, 10:52:02 »
How many years did you serve in the reserves? VAC counted all my class A, B, and C time the same in regards to CIA. From my understanding the 20 years is for those under the old veterans charter and 25 is for those that are under the new veterans charter. I'm not sure how it works for those that have VAC pension conditions under both. All my VAC claims were filed after 2006 so all my decisions fall under the NVC - hence 25 year bench mark is used for me (even though I enrolled in the 90s).

I only had 1 year of C class (ytep) and 20 years reg force.

Offline upandatom

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 08:33:36 »
Right, reassessments.
I'm at 93% right now. what's the cut-off for no more reassessment?
have a couple more claims to put in yet.
This new PFL is not looking good at all.

Im Fighting with them now about it

Im 102%, wont receive more money over 100%,

Here's the weird part

If you have a reassessment, and favorable, you get paid the amount for that year,
So its now 365400, and my original assessment was in 2016, so two years changes, plus the one in april.

Official wording

Disability Awards are paid at the current rate in the year for
which the award was granted. If the same condition was reassessed
at a later time and the assessment increased, you would receive
the increase at the new rate for that year.



But,
Always make sure you get an appropriate representation of your Disability level, over 100% or not.
For CIA, it matters, mental ability and physical. So if you go to grade 1 due to Mental, and another physical claim or amount makes you eligible for grade 2 for having both.
I am McLovin

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: DEC and CIA
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2018, 08:06:08 »
Im Fighting with them now about it

Im 102%, wont receive more money over 100%,

Here's the weird part

If you have a reassessment, and favorable, you get paid the amount for that year,
So its now 365400, and my original assessment was in 2016, so two years changes, plus the one in april.

Official wording

Disability Awards are paid at the current rate in the year for
which the award was granted. If the same condition was reassessed
at a later time and the assessment increased, you would receive
the increase at the new rate for that year.



But,
Always make sure you get an appropriate representation of your Disability level, over 100% or not.
For CIA, it matters, mental ability and physical. So if you go to grade 1 due to Mental, and another physical claim or amount makes you eligible for grade 2 for having both.

I’m 54% physical under veteran disability and 39% for ptsd under NVC. I have 21 years in. I have no idea where this will go.