Author Topic: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft  (Read 2873 times)

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Offline whiskey601

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Interesting article and development at UWaterloo Engineering relating to surveillance of Canadian airspace
https://uwaterloo.ca/stories/quantum-radar-will-expose-stealth-aircraft

Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
New $2.7 million project funded by Department of National Defence will develop technology for quantum radar

Stealth aircraft in the Canadian arctic will be no match for a new quantum radar system.

Researchers at the University of Waterloo are developing a new technology that promises to help radar operators cut through heavy background noise and isolate objects — including stealth aircraft and missiles — with unparalleled accuracy.

“In the Arctic, space weather such as geomagnetic storms and solar flares interfere with radar operation and make the effective identification of objects more challenging,” said Jonathan Baugh, a faculty member at the Institute for Quantum Computing (IQC) and a professor in the Department of Chemistry who is leading the project with three other researchers at IQC and the Waterloo Institute for Nanotechnology (WIN). “By moving from traditional radar to quantum radar, we hope to not only cut through this noise, but also to identify objects that have been specifically designed to avoid detection.”

 more at link above....

Offline CBH99

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 16:45:56 »
Technology these days both impresses me & terrifies me at the same time.  Very cool this is a Canadian innovation. 

I know my tin-foil hat has been getting more and more use lately, but I do keep scratching my head as to why technologies like this are openly discussed in the media instead of worked on diligently behind the scenes, in secret.


Nothing like giving potential adversaries a heads up that "Hey, we're working on this cool new technology that does A, B, and C..."  so they can say "Oh hey, look at that, time for us to change the way we do things also."   

Something like this, if developed & deployed in relative secrecy (or, just not bloody advertised in the media would be a good start) - could offer even more advantages if the potential adversaries aren't aware of it, and working on ways to counter it.
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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 18:09:43 »
It will be interesting if it works.

Lockheed Martin patented some sort of quantum radar technology in 2008 and the Chinese claimed to have a quantum radar in 2016, so I'm not sure how secret any of this is / should be.

Quantum technology seems to be the wave of the future.
Here is a primer: https://www.economist.com/news/essays/21717782-quantum-technology-beginning-come-its-own

Offline Altair

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 22:58:13 »
Technology these days both impresses me & terrifies me at the same time.  Very cool this is a Canadian innovation. 

I know my tin-foil hat has been getting more and more use lately, but I do keep scratching my head as to why technologies like this are openly discussed in the media instead of worked on diligently behind the scenes, in secret.


Nothing like giving potential adversaries a heads up that "Hey, we're working on this cool new technology that does A, B, and C..."  so they can say "Oh hey, look at that, time for us to change the way we do things also."   

Something like this, if developed & deployed in relative secrecy (or, just not bloody advertised in the media would be a good start) - could offer even more advantages if the potential adversaries aren't aware of it, and working on ways to counter it.
exactly.

Keep this stuff secret. Pay them extra to keep their mouths shut.

Not only does it change the way enemies operate, but what are the chances Russia and China don't start immediately trying to replicate it? (Assuming that they haven't started already)

Radar that renders stealth obsolete.  Great.  F-22 and F-35 main selling point gone.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 23:06:39 »
There are different kind of levels of classified information.  Some technologies are acknowledged (such as this one, disclosed by LockMart earlier in the decade) and some other are unacknowledged, such as the former exploitation or enemy aircraft from the 50s to the late 80s (acknowledged and parts of it declassified in 2006), which their existences are not even acknowledged by the Government.  For both, the technical content is classified but only for the unacknowledged programs is the mere existence of the project is classified. 

There is nothing wrong saying, in this specific case, "we are working on anti-stealth radar technology" (after all, it'd be silly to make believe we are not.  It is kind of the flavor of the day) but the research and results will be appropriately classified. 

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 23:25:03 »
Radar that renders stealth obsolete.  Great.  F-22 and F-35 main selling point gone.

They're working in a laboratory setting right now. That's a huge leap from being militarily viable technology. There is a lab in 2013 that was able to create a fusion reaction by releasing more energy than was inputted to cause the reaction, yet we don't have commercially viable fusion power yet. Someone created a kidney using stem cells on a biodegradable frame but we're not mass producing human organs.

There's a reason why the Gen 6 aircraft research is already starting, its a constant cat and mouse game.

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 00:23:26 »
Why would we worry about spies? It'd take the Chinese the weekend to get into our computer systems. They do it all the time.

Russia? Depending on what side you're on, the Russians were able to stay inside the US systems for the whole election cycle.

A presidential candidate, running a private server as SecState, with classified information, that a high school kid could hack.

Iranian reactors destroyed a week before coming on line. Israel admits it was them. Once they decided that the Iranians were lying and going to build nukes, they took it out. They knew exactly where in the plan the Iranians were at.

There are no secrets in defence. Or industrial settings for that matter. China steals plans or models, reverse engineers it and has it in production before the legal owner does.

It's also been my observation that people don't seem as concerned with security as we were 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that's just me.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 09:16:16 »
exactly.

Keep this stuff secret. Pay them extra to keep their mouths shut.

Not only does it change the way enemies operate, but what are the chances Russia and China don't start immediately trying to replicate it? (Assuming that they haven't started already)

As a "PMQ Brat of the Cold War", having lived overseas, I learned very early in my youth how naïve the majority of Canadians are when it comes to "Security"; not just National Security, but personal.  The majority of Canadians have no concept of Security on any level.  Sadly it is being exhibited daily by contractors working on all levels of Government Defence contracts, from the mundane electrician wiring DND facilities to the highest security scientists.
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 12:09:44 »
So, there's the other 'economical' aspect to this.

If there is now a Quantum RADAR that effectively renders the F-22/F-35's stealth capabilities as useless, and by extension the Russian stealth fighter and probably the Chinese one too (J22 was it?) then it will force those countries to invest their wealth in development of the next latest/greatest piece of technology.

Admittedly, most of the stealth aircraft in the air are USAF, so they would be the most impacted.

Just my ramblings...I'll wander back to my own lane.
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 14:20:20 »
Maybe a quantum radar jammer? Quantum radar homing missiles? Decoys? Cyber attacks?...

And don’t forget that stealth aircraft are not invisible to ‘conventional’ radars.

If you don’t believe me ask this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

Offline FJAG

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 18:04:55 »
IMHO a super radar system is of zero value if it is not backed up by the technology that will actually shoot nasty stuff down. We're sadly lacking in that respect.

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 18:27:14 »
If only we could find someone to explain quantum computers to us.
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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 18:38:42 »
IMHO a super radar system is of zero value if it is not backed up by the technology that will actually shoot nasty stuff down. We're sadly lacking in that respect.

 :cheers:


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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 18:51:57 »
Well someone over in DND must think its worthwhile investigating because the Canadian government is investing $2.7 million dollars in the project.

Quote
A ‘Quantum Radar’ System Will Watch for Stealth Aircraft and Missiles in the Arctic
Canada is investing $2.7 million to develop quantum radar technology.

Kate Lunau
Apr 12 2018, 11:00am

The Canadian government is investing $2.7 million to develop a powerful new quantum radar technology that would vastly improve detection of objects in the Arctic, including stealth aircraft and missiles, officials said Thursday.

The announcement was made at the University of Waterloo’s Institute for Quantum Computing (IQC), where scientists are developing a new sensing technique called “quantum illumination” that would allow radar operators to cut through background noise and pinpoint objects with unprecedented accuracy, including those designed to avoid detection.

Funding comes from the Department of National Defence’s All Domain Situational Awareness (ADSA) program, which is focused on “enhanced domain awareness of air, maritime surface and sub-surface approaches to Canada,” especially in the Arctic.

More at link.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 20:07:58 »
If only we could find someone to explain quantum computers to us.

From the same people at Waterloo:

Quote
Quantum computing is essentially harnessing and exploiting the amazing laws of quantum mechanics to process information. A traditional computer uses long strings of “bits,” which encode either a zero or a one. A quantum computer, on the other hand, uses quantum bits, or qubits. What's the difference? Well a qubit is a quantum system that encodes the zero and the one into two distinguishable quantum states. But, because qubits behave quantumly, we can capitalize on the phenomena of "superposition" and "entanglement."
. . .
Thanks to superposition and entanglement, a quantum computer can process a vast number of calculations simultaneously. Think of it this way: whereas a classical computer works with ones and zeros, a quantum computer will have the advantage of using ones, zeros and “superpositions” of ones and zeros. Certain difficult tasks that have long been thought impossible (or “intractable”) for classical computers will be achieved quickly and efficiently by a quantum computer.

https://uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/quantum-computing-101

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Offline FJAG

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2018, 20:34:34 »
You ruined my joke, I was thinking of this brilliant fellow ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eak_ogYMprk

 :rofl:  I'd forgotten. Good one.

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jollyjacktar

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Re: Canadian developed Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 22:08:03 »

Offline winnipegoo7

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