Author Topic: What Might Civil War Be Like?  (Read 29283 times)

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Offline Walt

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2020, 17:29:56 »
Well Brad, that's one of the answers we're looking for.

Well Donald H,

I'm curious. Within your posts, you often refer to "we" or "we're". Who or what is "we"?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 17:54:56 by Walt »

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #151 on: September 24, 2020, 22:39:22 »
The 'royal' we?
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Donald H

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #152 on: September 25, 2020, 12:40:43 »
Well Donald H,

I'm curious. Within your posts, you often refer to "we" or "we're". Who or what is "we"?

Well Walt, note that I've awarded you 100 milpoints for this post. And note the reason why.
The reason why I didn't deduct 100 is because that's not the way I operate.

You're the one who tossed out the comments about me and Shawn50 and then said you were leaving because of our behaviour. If you wish to engage in a conversation with me then please demonstrate your intent.

Your question above is hard to answer because 'we' is not always the same 'we'.

 :cheers:
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
~Mark Twain.

Offline Walt

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #153 on: September 25, 2020, 14:44:36 »

Your question above is hard to answer because 'we' is not always the same 'we'.

 :cheers:

OK. My "bad" then for not understanding your reference (as I shake my head). Take care.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 15:05:33 by Walt »

Online Brad Sallows

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #154 on: September 25, 2020, 14:56:10 »
>Your question above is hard to answer because 'we' is not always the same 'we'.

You guys working in shifts there?
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2020, 17:09:57 »
This is not good at all.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/2020-is-tumbling-toward-1917/

2020 Is Tumbling Toward 1917
We think we're safe from revolution. We're wrong—it's already in the works.
OCTOBER 2, 2020|12:01 AM
HELEN ANDREWS

Quote
When the Russian Revolution toppled the czar and put the Bolsheviks into power, the civilized countries of western Europe had good reason to tell themselves it could never happen to them. Russia was a barbaric country with a lopsided social structure, masses of peasants and no middle class to speak of. Their political system was a relic of the past, a time when street revolutions still happened. The rest of Europe was more modern, with constitutions and parliaments and labor unions. Any political conflict could work itself out through those proper channels.

Then came the German revolution of 1918-19, and civilized Europe had to recalibrate its sense of what was possible. Street unrest led to the forced abdication of the kaiser, the proclamation of a republic, a soviet government in Munich, and a near-miss of one in Berlin, only prevented by a timely blow to Rosa Luxemburg’s head. The uprising did not fulfill all its proponents’ hopes, in terms of ushering in a new socialist dawn, but it decisively refuted the idea that modern conditions had made revolution obsolete.

The Sixties left Americans feeling equally sure that a revolution could never happen here. An entire generation went into open rebellion, urban unrest exploded, tanks rolled through the streets of Los Angeles and Detroit, periodic bombings made many worry that the counterculture’s Lenin might be out there waiting for his moment—and yet we survived the nightmare unscathed. Americans concluded that our prosperity, or the flexibility of our political system, or maybe just the forward march of civilization, had transformed street rebellion from a genuine threat into a safe pastime for earnest young idealists.

But are we really so safe? In June, the great Russian literature professor Gary Saul Morson told The Wall Street Journal that America was starting to feel eerily familiar. “It’s astonishingly like late 19th-, early 20th-century Russia, when basically the entire educated class felt you simply had to be against the regime or some sort of revolutionary,” he said. Even the moderate Kadet Party could not bring itself to condemn terrorism against the czar, any more than a modern Democrat could condemn Black Lives Matter: “A famous line from one of the liberal leaders put it this way: ‘Condemn terrorism? That would be the moral death of the party.’”

Today, the Resistance is already signalling that they won’t accept a Trump victory in November any more than they accepted one in 2016. After the last election, they attempted a soft coup by means of the Russiagate scandal and impeachment. What kind of coup will come next? By looking at the Russian precedent, we can evaluate the risk that this country might enact our own distinctively American version of 1917—and how close we have come to it already.

What makes this so chilling is the "elites" both then and now have no investment in the current system, and indeed seem more interested in overturning it than preserving it. Add an ever escalating insurgency on the ground and extra stress personal, economic and political stress due to the pandemic, and you have  toxic brew simmering under everything.

Remainder of article on link
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2020, 22:02:21 »
According to my Russian friends, the real trigger for the revolt started because the government failed to keep the roads in the cities cleared so the flour/grain could get to the bakeries, leading to a shortage of bread. The Soviets on gaining power, made sure the roads were cleared so the bread could be baked. The moral of the story is to ensure the basics exist, then there is much less incentive to effectively revolt.

Offline FJAG

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2020, 23:23:05 »
According to my Russian friends, the real trigger for the revolt started because the government failed to keep the roads in the cities cleared so the flour/grain could get to the bakeries, leading to a shortage of bread. The Soviets on gaining power, made sure the roads were cleared so the bread could be baked. The moral of the story is to ensure the basics exist, then there is much less incentive to effectively revolt.

Roman bread and circuses.

 :cheers:
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Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #158 on: October 07, 2020, 01:09:14 »
The moral of the story is to ensure the basics exist, then there is much less incentive to effectively revolt.

Also, make sure that you use 'force' effectively:

“When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
+300
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Online Brad Sallows

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #159 on: October 07, 2020, 15:33:42 »
>What makes this so chilling is the "elites" both then and now have no investment in the current system, and indeed seem more interested in overturning it than preserving it.

That doesn't make any sense.  The "elites" are wholly devoted to the current system, which they see as being interrupted (at risk of being overturned) by Trump's administration, or by populism (right or left).  Their entire collective being is devoted to re-establishing their control and their sinecures.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #160 on: October 07, 2020, 16:25:08 »
That's a good point Brad.  How can elites not be invested in a system that is structured to enable the richest 1% to own 44% of the world's capital?  Why would elites turn their back on a system that bails them out for billions of dollars when things go south?
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Online Remius

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #161 on: October 08, 2020, 12:38:57 »
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #162 on: October 09, 2020, 10:19:42 »

I think this image sums up a lot of the 'middle ground' folks.



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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #163 on: October 09, 2020, 17:10:17 »
Prepare for something 'different' in November....



'The country’s lost its mind': Polls warning of civil war, violence shows deep partisan chasm over election

Bill Fry, 61, is a supporter of President Donald Trump in rural Ohio who doesn't share much in common politically with Matt Edelman, 29, a Joe Biden backer in Brooklyn, New York.

Except this: They both worry about the legitimacy of the upcoming presidential election and fear an outcome that appears tainted could heighten the nation's already frayed psyche and exacerbate violence in the streets.

They're not alone. A new poll shows a large swath of Americans harbor deep reservations about the election results weeks before Election Day and are concerned about what actions people might resort to as a consequence.

The YouGov poll of 1,999 registered voters found that nearly half – 47% – disagree with the idea that the election "is likely to be fair and honest." And that slightly more than half – 51% – won't "generally agree on who is the legitimately elected president of the United States." The online poll was conducted Oct.1-2 and has a margin of error of +/- 2.56 percentage points.

In addition, a YouGov poll of 1,505 voters found that 56% said they expect to see "an increase in violence as a result of the election." That question had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.

For Fry and many other Trump supporters, the concern over the election's legitimacy is tied to the largely unproven claims Trump has raised about potential fraud involving millions of mail-in ballots that already have begun to pour in to election office across the nation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/07/both-sides-worry-doubts-election-integrity-could-spark-violence/5880965002/
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline mariomike

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #164 on: October 09, 2020, 17:39:57 »
Prepare for something 'different' in November....

Someone more politically savvy than I may disagree. But, I don't believe US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

Quote
8 Oct., 2020

By depressing the minority vote, delegitimizing the results and creating enough legal chaos that the Electoral College cannot reach a majority of 270, the Trump team could throw the election into the House of Representatives where each state has one vote.

Article here
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/520150-how-trump-could-still-win-the-1876-plan




« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 18:05:29 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline shawn5o

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #165 on: October 10, 2020, 11:26:34 »
Someone more politically savvy than I may disagree. But, I don't believe US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

Quote
Article here
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/520150-how-trump-could-still-win-the-1876-plan

Good article and the author is an old hand at politics.

Quote
From the Hill
By depressing the minority vote, delegitimizing the results and creating enough legal chaos that the Electoral College cannot reach a majority of 270, the Trump team could throw the election into the House of Representatives where each state has one vote.

I believe the claim of "depressing the minority vote" is an exaggeration.

And what about (whataboutism  ;D ) the democrats plan to disrupt/dispute the election?

Quote

Election results/Election integrity: The Democrats are stirring up crowds by conjuring up dark images of Trump of being unwilling to leave the White House if he is defeated.  They vividly describe having to bring in troops to physically remove him.  Such accusations continue even though Trump has said repeatedly he will accept the results of a fair election.  That is a completely relevant caveat when there is abundant evidence that leftist groups are prepared to prevent his re-election by fair means or foul!  Leading Democrats have openly said they cannot allow Trump to win.  Hillary Clinton has gone so far as to publicly urge Joe Biden not to concede "under any circumstances."

The incessant drumbeat about Trump not accepting the results is really infantile projection.  Which party, for the first time in history, refused to accept the results of the 2016 election?  Which party has spent four years wailing from every rooftop that Hillary actually won the election and undermining or attacking the duly elected president at every opportunity?  Which party is pushing hard to eliminate the Electoral College so the country will be ruled by New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco?

Before the impeachment proceedings in the House, the GOP argued that the American voters should decide Trump's fate at the ballot box in 2020.  The Democrat Party, led by Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House and third in line for the presidency, called that "dangerous" and didn't want to take that chance.  Since the impeachment failed in the Senate, the left has pushed for changes in the voting system that favors mail-in ballots and early voting — both measures that dilute bipartisan supervision of voting locations and threaten the integrity of the voting process.

Michael Bloomberg, a Democrat billionaire, is giving $17 million to pay the fines and legal fees required to restore the voting franchise for 32,000 black and Hispanic felons (by the way, whites not considered smacks of racism to me) in Florida, a must-win state for Trump.  After having spent a billion dollars on a failed attempt to win the democratic nomination, Bloomberg has, ironically, already pledged $100 million to help Biden win Florida.

Full article at
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/defending_trump_from_a_tornado_of_liberal_lies.html

 ;)
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: What Might Civil War Be Like?
« Reply #166 on: October 17, 2020, 12:05:49 »
Micheal Yon has come to Portland to observe the insurgency there, and is starting to offer reporting on the situation (previously he covered the Hong Kong uprising)

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/10/16/how-close-is-the-us-to-civil-war-a-war-correspondent-is-in-portland-to-find-out-n1063645

How Close Is the U.S. to Civil War? A War Correspondent Is in Portland to Find Out
BY JEFF REYNOLDS OCT 16, 2020 4:52 PM ET

Quote
Michael Yon has covered many civil wars, insurgencies, and popular uprisings. He originally thought he would spend the next several weeks in Taiwan. Instead, he came to Portland in September with the plan to stay here through Election Day and its aftermath. Michael lives in Thailand, and had hoped to go to Taiwan to cover the unrest there as China becomes ever more aggressive. When he saw what was going on with antifa and Black Lives Matter in Portland and other West Coast cities, he decided he’d seen this story before and needed to come here instead.

Indeed, many folks on both sides believe the United States is headed to a second civil war. Rick Moran of PJ Media wrote about it last month, and at the end of September, a poll showed that 61% of Americans believe we’re on the brink.

A native Floridian and former Green Beret, Yon has been to 75 countries around the world to document popular unrest and civil wars. He was embedded as a journalist in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and claims to have predicted the civil war in Iraq while most people called him crazy.

In an interview with PJ Media, Yon says what he sees happening in America has him deeply troubled. He talked about the chances of all-out civil war, the Balkanization of the United States, and how difficult it will be to hold it all together as we approach the most tumultuous election in US history.

In his short time in Portland, he’s already heard many of the same rumors we’ve all heard: that cops are considering walking off the job en masse because of the four months of nightly riots and the complete lack of support from political leaders in the city and the state of Oregon.

“I’ve been out of the United States most of the last 20 years,” Yon said. “I’ve actually spent more than half my life overseas and in other countries and quite a few wars and conflicts. My office actually is in Thailand. And so this has obviously been building in the United States since before we were born, right? Before our grandparents were born for that matter.”

Yon says he was covering Hong Kong until the Communists kicked him out on February 5. “I’ve been watching, then of course the pandemic stomped in,” Yon said, “and then and I realized that we could be going into a civil war in the United States. And so that’s when I decided to come back to the United States and, most specifically, Portland.”

In the interview, Yon noted that, in his experience, pandemic, war, and famine almost always appear together in one order or another. Drawing on his Green Beret training and his experience covering these kinds of uprisings, he says he thought early on that COVID-19 could be a catalyst for unrest. “Let me say where I come from on this since I study war so much,” Yon said. “If you have a big war, you’ll always have pandemic and famine. If you have a big famine, you’ll have pandemic. It’s like the Devil’s Triangle. If you get a big one, you’ll get the other two every time. So in ways that are unpredictable, it always happens. You roll the bowling ball, eventually it’s hitting something.”

Yon urged Americans to be prepared and start stocking up for emergencies. “That’s why back in January I was saying, over and over and over, stock up on food,” he said. “Get medicines that you need, be prepared. I got solar put on my home in Thailand and had an extra water reservoir put in just in case, because we didn’t know which way it was going to go. I already had good food stockpiles.”

So, will civil war naturally follow the pandemic and the shortages we’ve already seen in the U.S., and will Portland be ground zero? “I think there’s many ground zeroes,” Yon said, “because we have many different conflicts brewing, and some are not actually related to each other. [Antifa is] trying to push it as far as they can. Obviously, it’s an old technique. We’re all very well aware of the methods. They have injured more than 200 of the law enforcement officers down here just in Portland [federal and local]. We’re never more than one night away from a few people getting killed down there and then this thing spills out. It’s a wonder, actually, it hasn’t happened in a big way yet. It kind of feels like it’s right there.”

“The conditions have become ripe, the sunlight’s there.” Yon said. “This is how groups form not just in the United States, but all around the world. This is how, when I was involved in the Thai fighting, covering that, it was about 80 different groups. You can’t even keep track of their names because there’s always more. They’ve been attacking so many people, they’ve murdered here, they’ve done arson. They’re destroying businesses, harassing people on the street, getting people fired from their jobs.”

Links to the full interview are here: https://anchor.fm/behindthecurtain/episodes/Michael-Yon-on-Portlands-insurrection--and-Brady-White-on-why-police-morale-is-in-the-toilet---Ep--27-el5luc
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.