Author Topic: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight  (Read 317583 times)

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Offline garb811

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1000 on: June 26, 2019, 23:35:17 »
For those that are curious as to the Gofundme which was accepting donations as of yesterday:

Admiral Mark Norman Legal Defence
Quote
Good day everyone. By now you may have seen in the news that VAdm Norman will be retiring from the Canadian Forces and has reached a settlement with the government. I will be discussing mechanisms by which the money received can be returned (or potentially donated to charity) depending on the ability of GOFUNDME to support such an approach and the wishes of the contributors. I will get back to everyone once I have more information. Standby for more updates. Lee


Offline ballz

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1001 on: June 26, 2019, 23:37:26 »
The calculation is much more complicated than that and depends very much on the terms of the contract of employment, length of service, opportunity to find a replacement income and other factors. The more senior the employee the more complex the calculation.

If there is any general rule of thumb it's one month of salary and benefits for every year of service which would equate to roughly three years compensation for him but I'm not sure how close he was to CRA as that would be a limiting factor.

Don't forget that there is also a the fact that he was treated shabbily, put through extreme mental pressure and his reputation dragged through the dirt. That would up the settlement significantly.

 :cheers:

Indeed. This was far more than a "wrongful dismissal" scenario..... the guy's pension alone is worth ~$135,000+ a year for the rest of his life, plus he's got a hell of an axe he must be dying to grind... buying him out on this did not come cheap.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 00:02:43 by ballz »
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1002 on: June 27, 2019, 01:05:48 »
The calculation is much more complicated than that and depends very much on the terms of the contract of employment, length of service, opportunity to find a replacement income and other factors. The more senior the employee the more complex the calculation.

If there is any general rule of thumb it's one month of salary and benefits for every year of service which would equate to roughly three years compensation for him but I'm not sure how close he was to CRA as that would be a limiting factor.

Don't forget that there is also a the fact that he was treated shabbily, put through extreme mental pressure and his reputation dragged through the dirt. That would up the settlement significantly.

 :cheers:

He would get Wallace damages, probably even some small recognition on a punitive scale. If he's getting more than 3-4 million, to me that's also an affront to justice- it's treating rich people different than other people who would not have been able to afford the quality of lawyer that he had. Let's be clear, this is the same Admiral for which it can be said Karma is a bicth, and for full disclosure I also supported his case financially, more out of spite against Trudeau than anything else.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1003 on: June 27, 2019, 07:06:45 »
You know, I've never said that even once, but if I had to in order to prove I was a Newf, I'd use "jib" correctly.

 :facepalm:

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1004 on: June 27, 2019, 09:33:41 »



"What's a jib?"  Homer Simpson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZB7xEonjsc
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1005 on: July 09, 2019, 21:46:23 »
One final casualty, Current VCDS has resigned citing the reversal of a choice to have mark Noman replace him.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5477661/paul-wynnyk-resigns-mark-norman/?utm_source=GlobalCalgary&utm_medium=Facebook
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Offline OldTanker

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1006 on: July 09, 2019, 22:24:51 »
I guess his planned retirement date of 2019 worked out after all. Too bad he had to be screwed around like this though. I worked for him a long time ago and found him (Paul Wynnyk) to be a fair, competent and very knowledgable officer. I wish him all the best in his retirement.

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1007 on: July 09, 2019, 23:26:23 »
If the CDS isn't a chain smoker and frequent consumer of very hard liquor with lunch, he soon will be.
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Offline garb811

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1008 on: July 09, 2019, 23:29:49 »
The letter is out on Twitter, probably a few other places as well. It was an...interesting...read.

@MercedesGlobal

Offline ballz

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1009 on: July 09, 2019, 23:40:02 »
I actually don't see the news here... if anything, it makes the government and CDS look good as it shows they actually were going to reinstate VAdm Norman as VCDS.

Gen Wynnk, of course, probably accepted that decision as a professional, realizing that yes, it was in the best interest of the CAF (well... no... it was in the best interest of the government... but as was pointed out, Generals serve at the pleasure of Cabinet) and that he was unfortunately the spare prick at the wedding. Given he wanted to / was ready to release anyway and live with his family again after 7? years of being on IR... he made his plans and probably wasn't too upset about it. He was probably pretty happy to be getting on with it in all seriousness.

The CAF with its on-the-bus off-the-bus modus operandi, I probably would have made the same decision after being told "oh no wait, situation change... can you stay?" His family was already set on him coming home, he's served his 35+ years, he's already got subsequent employment lined up that he's looking forward to, etc. Seems like a logical choice to me...
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1010 on: July 10, 2019, 07:05:18 »
One final casualty, Current VCDS has resigned citing the reversal of a choice to have mark Noman replace him.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5477661/paul-wynnyk-resigns-mark-norman/?utm_source=GlobalCalgary&utm_medium=Facebook
And the info-machine version ...
Quote
Lieutenant-General Paul Wynnyk, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff of the Canadian Armed Forces, announced his retirement today after more than 38 years of loyal and dedicated service to Canada. Lt.-Gen. Wynnyk’s retirement will be effective as of 9 August, 2019. The selection of his successor in the critical position as the second in command of the CAF will be announced in the near future.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1011 on: July 10, 2019, 07:43:27 »
No, the last casualty will be Vance. He'll get the boot post Election 2019 if a new party is elected. He might stay on if the Liberals win again, simply because he's been an apt shield for an underwhelming Defense Minister to deflect away any problems.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1012 on: July 10, 2019, 08:10:13 »
Quote
Wynnyk writes Vance advised him that his “continued service as the VCDS [vice-chief of defence staff] was no longer in the best interests of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF)

Best interest of the CAF or Liberal government?
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1013 on: July 10, 2019, 12:12:03 »
Best interest of the CAF or Liberal government?
For what it’s worth could he be fed up with the continued bullshyte coming from the GoC?
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1014 on: July 10, 2019, 12:40:47 »
Can't imagine 7 years of IR to Ottawa from Edmonton; what a grind!  18 months of IR to a high OP tempo unit was enough for me, but would have gone barmy if I was working a desk job.

I think after 38 years of service, you really deserve better than that kind of on again/off again job security (especially when you've hit the pension ceiling) so wish him a productive and enjoyable retirement.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1015 on: July 10, 2019, 13:26:30 »
Treated a bit more graciously by the Army info-machine via FB ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1016 on: July 10, 2019, 17:24:40 »
Treated a bit more graciously by the Army info-machine via FB ...


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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1017 on: July 10, 2019, 20:42:48 »

I wish nothing but the best for the General in his upcoming retirement.

As do I.  I didn't think he letter was overly amiable, actually. 
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1018 on: July 10, 2019, 21:55:13 »
Discussion specific to IR and its vagaries is now here - enjoy.

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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1019 on: July 11, 2019, 11:30:03 »
A little more info and context for the resignation:

OTTAWA — Lt.-Gen. Paul Wynnyk may be at the epicentre of the latest controversy to convulse the Canadian Armed Forces, but Canada’s second-highest ranking officer looked relaxed and was in good humour Wednesday when he reached out to emphatically deny that his resignation a day earlier had anything to do with his relationship with the country’s top soldier.

“I categorically would like to say that that is not the case,” the military’s second-in-command said during an interview at his office, before launching into a robust defence of his boss.

“The chief seems to be a target. It is not only unfair to him. It damages the institution,” Wynnyk said.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5482436/paul-wynnyk-jonathan-vance-defends-resignation/

Offline dapaterson

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #1020 on: July 12, 2019, 14:33:51 »
Chief of the Defence Staff announces Canadian Armed Forces General and Flag Officer senior appointments, promotions, and retirements
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2019/07/chief-of-the-defence-staff-announces-canadian-armed-forces-general-and-flag-officer-senior-appointments-promotions-and-retirements.html


Lieutenant-General P.F. Wynnyk, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, will retire from service resulting in the following promotions and appointments:

Lieutenant-General J.M. Lanthier will be appointed Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, replacing Lieutenant-General P.F. Wynnyk.

Lieutenant-General W.D. Eyre will be appointed Commander Canadian Army, replacing Lieutenant-General J.M. Lanthier.

Rear-Admiral H.C. Edmundson will be promoted to the rank of Vice-Admiral and will be appointed Commander Military Personnel Command, replacing Lieutenant-General W.D. Eyre.

Major-General S.J.R. Whelan will be appointed Deputy Commander Military Personnel Command, replacing Rear-Admiral H.C. Edmundson.

Brigadier-General J.R.M. Gagne will be promoted to Major-General and will be appointed Chief Military Personnel Strategic Programs, replacing Major-General S.J.R. Whelan.

Colonel F.G. Carpentier will be promoted acting while so employed to the rank of Brigadier-General and appointed as Commander 2 Canadian Division and Joint Task Force (East), in Montreal QC, replacing Brigadier-General M.A.J. Carignan.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html