Author Topic: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general  (Read 257367 times)

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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August is fast approaching.    :whistle:

It’s too late now. With all the work up training etc I think November is more realistic. Just my opinion.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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It’s too late now. With all the work up training etc I think November is more realistic. Just my opinion.


I believe this is part of a carefully planned rotation of aviation support involving, at least, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and, now, Canada ... I think the dates are fixed and have been committed to by Ottawa at the highest levels.

There are three months left and there are a lot of things that need doing ...  :nod: ... backing away or saying, "sorry, not quite ready," is not, it seems to me, an option. "Ready, Aye Ready" is what's required, again.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline winnipegoo7

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How much workup training needs to be done?

Offline PuckChaser

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How much workup training needs to be done?
If its anything like Afghanistan, 9 months worth.

Offline winnipegoo7

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Well this doesn’t seem like Afghanistan... we are sending 6 helicopters, not a battle group.

And I’m wondering if workups would have started long before the Mali mission was announced.


Edited to add: I’ve heard of units deploying with very short workup periods as well. 

Offline Good2Golf

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Tac hel squadrons are pretty decent at prepping without some of the extreme(over?) training (i.e. training longer than the deployment itself).  TMST pieces aside, high-readiness elements of aviation are always in the rotational pool, and designated elements will likely be most focused on aligning to the deployment schedule.  It is fortunate that 1 Wing didn't flush its AFG experience after 2011, nor its more recent experience in IRQ, but instead folded those experiences into SOPs, BTS and tactical-level doctrine, and keeps it up to date with regular user interaction with the Canadian Army and other users.

 :2c:

Regards
G2G

Offline Eye In The Sky

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This is something that might not be so familiar to lots of people;  RCAF Operational Sqns maintaining assets (human and aircraft) at considerably higher readiness than most units.  That usually means thru all the DRT SET (IBTS) trg, DAGs, APRVs..basically waiting for some theatre specific PMed and ROE briefs, some simulator time (if possible / required) and off you go (in my fleet).  For a named op, my quickest time from 'phone call to wheels up' is just a little over a day and a half.  I tell my folks, consider yourself on 48 hours NTM for "insert timeframe here".  If I go camping out of province, my license plate # and camp site are on my leave pass.

If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark.

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Offline MCG

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The government spoke earlier about the value of French Canadian soldiers going to French Africa.  Would that be 430 Sqn with any non-RCAF ground elements coming from 5 CMBG? 

Could we possibly have set the mission deployment dates around Maple Resolve, to which 430 Sqn and 5 CMBG are currently deployed? I am not saying that is how we should do business, just asking if that is what might be going on.

Offline Jarnhamar

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The government spoke earlier about the value of French Canadian soldiers going to French Africa.  Would that be 430 Sqn with any non-RCAF ground elements coming from 5 CMBG? 

Could we possibly have set the mission deployment dates around Maple Resolve, to which 430 Sqn and 5 CMBG are currently deployed? I am not saying that is how we should do business, just asking if that is what might be going on.

French Canadian soldiers going to French Africa.
Lots of soldiers outside of Quebec speak French. If this is the government's mindset then fine but let's turf the PER points for speaking French.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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French Canadian soldiers going to French Africa.
Lots of soldiers outside of Quebec speak French. If this is the government's mindset then fine but let's turf the PER points for speaking French.

You know who our Prime Minister is, right?  ;D
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Eagle Eye View

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I believe the the deployment dates are based on the chinook Sqn reaching OFP, sometime this summer. Like EITS said, most Sqn maintain already an high pers readiness in case of short notice deployment. For instance, during Op Mobile (Libya) I received a phone call on Saturday night and was flying my first mission over there on Thursday.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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I believe the the deployment dates are based on the chinook Sqn reaching OFP, sometime this summer. Like EITS said, most Sqn maintain already an high pers readiness in case of short notice deployment. For instance, during Op Mobile (Libya) I received a phone call on Saturday night and was flying my first mission over there on Thursday.

I wonder what the 'DAG Red' rate was when the Army deployed on OP LENTUS last year? I know that the reserves struggled in some cases...
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline PuckChaser

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I wonder if all the francophone women in the CAF will be tired of being in Africa when someone crunches the numbers and realizes we probably only have enough for one Roto that'll have to stay deployed permanently to meet the quotas...
+60

Offline Jarnhamar

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I wonder if all the francophone women in the CAF will be tired of being in Africa when someone crunches the numbers and realizes we probably only have enough for one Roto that'll have to stay deployed permanently to meet the quotas...

I mentioned it before, then deleted it, but thinking about it again I wouldn't be all that surprised if there was serious consideration to not deploy white soldiers to Africa. If we can make an argument to specifically send more women as to appear pro-woman to everyone or whatever then I'm sure we could make an argument at the government level about not wanting the optics of white settles  peacekeepers in Africa. A certain group of Canadians would lap up I bet.


As far as deploying and meeting quotas good point. Maybe year long tours, or 3 year postings?
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Offline Loachman

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The government spoke earlier about the value of French Canadian soldiers going to French Africa.  Would that be 430 Sqn with any non-RCAF ground elements coming from 5 CMBG?

We only have three Squadrons to rotate - 408, 430, and 450. Each takes its turn as the core (with augmentation from other 1 Wing and non-1 Wing units) for high-readiness and ultimate deployment, should one occur. We cannot, then, suddenly chuck in a Franco-heavy Squadron in place of the one already in the "Go" position at whim.

1 Wing is very well-standardized across the whole community, as crews/Techs etcetera routinely work with those from Squadrons other than their own. Even mixed crews (on the Griffon side) are quite common on ops or major exercises - one could easily see each crewmember wearing a different Squadron patch.

There are Francos in Anglo-heavy Squadrons as well.

Offline MCG

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We only have three Squadrons to rotate - 408, 430, and 450. Each takes its turn as the core (with augmentation from other 1 Wing and non-1 Wing units) for high-readiness and ultimate deployment, should one occur. We cannot, then, suddenly chuck in a Franco-heavy Squadron in place of the one already in the "Go" position at whim.

1 Wing is very well-standardized across the whole community, as crews/Techs etcetera routinely work with those from Squadrons other than their own. Even mixed crews (on the Griffon side) are quite common on ops or major exercises - one could easily see each crewmember wearing a different Squadron patch.

There are Francos in Anglo-heavy Squadrons as well.
There are francophones and Anglophones all over the country and neither is constrained in postings by the official language of a unit.  But never underestimate the power of political expediency to trump operational considerations.  If waiting just a couple of months will align the stars so that a government (of any political colour) can make a big show of parading French language units out the door to a French language theatre of operations, then I would not be surprised to see them do that.

Offline Loachman

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That would screw up things far more than it is worth - and Mali will not be our only op on the go. I somewhat doubt that we could put together a whole Franco Chinook component anyway, and certainly not a second roto. Planning and preparation are already underway, and I've heard no mention/hint of any such pressure.

Offline overwatch

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anyone have any idea which RCAF trades will go? I'm thinking pilots, flight engineers, air techs...not sure what else.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Pilots, FEs, Loadmasters, Mission specialists, AVS/AVN/ACS/AWS Techs.  probably Supply, Admin...the required support for flying ops folks.  The hard air trades fly, but only with everyone who puts all the pieces in place doing their important jobs as well.
If you're gonna fight, fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark.

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Offline dapaterson

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Pilots, FEs, Loadmasters, Mission specialists, AVS/AVN/ACS/AWS Techs.  probably Supply, Admin...the required support for flying ops folks.  The hard air trades fly, but only with everyone who puts all the pieces in place doing their important jobs as well.

And ACSOs.  Don't forget the ACSOs.




I mean, someone has to make the coffee and say "Sure, you could just rely on the GPS, but..."
+300
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Heard/read something the other day (sorry can't remember where) that the plan was to have the choppers deployed by August.
Years ago, fairy tales all began with, "Once upon a time." Now we know they all began with, "If I'm elected."

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