Author Topic: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)  (Read 15471 times)

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Offline blackberet17

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Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« on: April 09, 2015, 12:15:54 »
Where did I park my Iltis again?

Oh, wait...
« Ne vous occupez pas d'eux; ils ne savent pas tirer. [...] Il y a des ennemis devant nous, derrière nous et sur nos flancs. Il ne reste qu'une place sans danger, soit vers l'objectif. » Paul Triquet, VC

Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 13:16:30 »
1x C17 = 18x Iltis

1x C17 = 2x LAV

And we had Iltis mounted TOW systems didn't we?
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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 13:19:12 »
Bring back the 106 recoilless, I say, would look smashing with those old pips n crowns.  And you can mount it on anything bigger than a DR bike... G Wagons up!
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Online Hamish Seggie

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 13:41:18 »
My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 13:50:14 »
My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.

You must be nearing the "geriatric age".  I think most young "Molisha" Cbt Arms soldiers would prefer something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEb8s5EytqE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYk6l7fmgY0
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Offline Eland2

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2015, 13:51:06 »
And we had Iltis mounted TOW systems didn't we?

I don't know if TOW systems were ever mounted on the Iltis, even experimentally, but I have seen photos of TOW being mounted on M151 jeeps and on the 1/2-ton jeep-like trucks the army had up until the very early 1970s.

Offline MCG

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2015, 13:52:39 »
It has been done.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 15:07:43 »
Bring back the 106 recoilless, I say, would look smashing with those old pips n crowns.  And you can mount it on anything bigger than a DR bike... G Wagons up!

I bet those old things are just sitting in packing grease in war stocks, they would be cheap to operate, and ammo couldn't be that hard to manufacture?
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2015, 15:23:30 »
as has the 106mm on G-wagons

You could have the reserves go light , towed 120mm mortars, VBL type light armour, infantry carried in 4x4 or 6x6 small off road trucks (Pinzuger style) with TOW mounted in G-wagons and even the automatic grenade launchers mounted on them.  8)

Ammo is still being made for the 106m RR


Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2015, 15:24:01 »
My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.

The Brits might give you the Land Rover WMIK for a song, since they have moved to the larger Jackal MWMIK.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2015, 15:35:44 »
as has the 106mm on G-wagons

You could have the reserves go light , towed 120mm mortars, VBL type light armour, infantry carried in 4x4 or 6x6 small off road trucks (Pinzuger style) with TOW mounted in G-wagons and even the automatic grenade launchers mounted on them.  8)

Ammo is still being made for the 106m RR

Sounds like we would become Motorized brigade groups
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2015, 17:20:03 »
How about a MILANdrover?

I wonder if they could be delivered with the 1/35 model kits?



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Offline Eland2

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 18:04:18 »
If something like the Supacat Jackal had been available when I was serving with 'C' Squadron 1st Hussars in 1980, it would have been just too cool seeing the unit get a few of them. Greater cross-country mobility and speed, plus the ability to mount two GPMG's and/or a grenade launcher, plus tons of room for radios and personal kit plus typical vehicle stores, what's not to like?


Online Chris Pook

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 19:53:02 »
Reckless in Syria....

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/ancient-us-weapon-in-syria/

Add the Aimpoint FCS12 sight system - which is also compatible with CG84, HMGs and GMGs

http://www.all4shooters.com/en/home/pro-zone/2013-news/Aimpoint-FCS12-Fire-Control-System/



"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 22:15:42 »
I have a few reservations about the Jackal design (especially with the crew being seated over the wheels, not exactly the best place when you roll over a mine or IED), but in terms of payload, performance and weapons carriage, it is certainly a huge step up from the Land Rover 110 or similar light vehicles.

Circling around the drain again; a modern "light" vehicle combining speed, cross country mobility and enough load carriage to be a useful platform could be derived from the Israeli "Combat Guard", although a tire change would be rather challenging  :o.

If you are looking at the ability to "patrol" where no one else can go and still carry a useful payload (including weaponry) a BV-206 or similar marginal terrain vehicle (Viking or Bronco) is amphibious, can cross soft ground which can sink a dismounted soldier and carries up to 5 tons of payload. 106mm recoilless cannons, TOW ATGMs or even 81mm mortars can be carried aboard and fired from the vehicle, or you can carry up to 16 people.

Kirkhill will weigh in on the virtues of even lighter ATV type vehicles, which do have a niche role (although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline X Royal

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 22:43:06 »
(although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).
Argo?
With limited speed & range with a plastic body I can't see this being too useful even with many modifications.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2015, 23:03:42 »
I have a few reservations about the Jackal design (especially with the crew being seated over the wheels, not exactly the best place when you roll over a mine or IED), but in terms of payload, performance and weapons carriage, it is certainly a huge step up from the Land Rover 110 or similar light vehicles.

Circling around the drain again; a modern "light" vehicle combining speed, cross country mobility and enough load carriage to be a useful platform could be derived from the Israeli "Combat Guard", although a tire change would be rather challenging  :o.

If you are looking at the ability to "patrol" where no one else can go and still carry a useful payload (including weaponry) a BV-206 or similar marginal terrain vehicle (Viking or Bronco) is amphibious, can cross soft ground which can sink a dismounted soldier and carries up to 5 tons of payload. 106mm recoilless cannons, TOW ATGMs or even 81mm mortars can be carried aboard and fired from the vehicle, or you can carry up to 16 people.

Kirkhill will weigh in on the virtues of even lighter ATV type vehicles, which do have a niche role (although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).

Forget the fancy schmancy stuff... right now a few dozen 'off the shelf' heavily armed Chevy 30 cwt (or a modern equivalent) would probably be miles ahead of where we are now. Viz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group
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Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Online Chris Pook

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2015, 00:49:03 »
Just to demonstrate to Thucydides that I may be harder to "template" than he figures   ;D

and in the spirit of compromise

Howabout the Ford F350 - as fitted by Ricardo for the Irish Army with WMIK?



At 2m x 5.7m that's about 8 per C17. Not 18 Iltis but not 2 LAVs either.

And readily available at your local Ford dealer (kindof).

PS - and you could sling it under a CH-147/148/149...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 00:58:47 by Kirkhill »
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2015, 09:19:15 »
Argo?
With limited speed & range with a plastic body I can't see this being too useful even with many modifications.

Well think of the Argo as a template for what "we" might want. It is a marginal terrain vehicle, can be fitted with tracks for really extreme conditions and is fully amphibious. The Chinese have an 8X8 ATV which might serve as an inspiration as well.

As for the Ford F-350 as a WMIK, I am for that. Popular Mechanics went one better by using the Ford F-450 chassis as the basis for a thought experiment Joint Tactical Light Vehicle, which combines the mobility and firepower *we* want with armoured protection, which seems to be a "must have" these days since casualties can derail virtually any operation by sapping public support. Maybe not so many on a C-17, but still more than a LAV or two.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2015, 10:42:43 »
the fact that a country that has a huge chunk of the arctic region in it's boundary's and several disputes about those boundary's and does not have a capability like the Viking speaks volumes about how much we really care about it. 

Offline Danjanou

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2015, 10:49:36 »
Bring back the 106 recoilless, I say, would look smashing with those old pips n crowns.  And you can mount it on anything bigger than a DR bike... G Wagons up!

Careful what you wish for. The powers that be will probably decide this is an appropriate budget cut alternative vehicle.  ;D

NASA spent $12 Million designing a pen that could write in the zero gravity environment of space. The Russians went with pencils.

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2015, 11:10:10 »
Careful what you wish for. The powers that be will probably decide this is an appropriate budget cut alternative vehicle.  ;D



That. Is..... AWESOME!!!
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Colin P

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2015, 11:29:23 »
Cue Sparky and his youtube persona "Dyanmicpara"  ::)

Here in Canada we will call it the LGS

Online Chris Pook

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2015, 11:34:02 »
Careful what you wish for. The powers that be will probably decide this is an appropriate budget cut alternative vehicle.  ;D




Luvvin it!   Useful firepower of large calibre that doesn't put a load on the infanteer's back and can be ported in multiples on trucks and helos.  What's not to like?  Just the thing for the Battalion Combat Support Companies you don't have.  Cross country riding might be a bit difficult.....

And Colin - I still like Perrin Beatty's 1987 white paper.  We should have had 820 Calgary manufactured Bv206s along with the 199 London manufactured Bisons.

The contract for the Bv206s (450 MCAD) was actually awarded to Foremost.  When it came to trimming that white paper down to an affordable level the traditionalists won every battle.



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Offline blackberet17

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Re: Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2015, 11:40:12 »
Talk about firepower comin' out your arse...
« Ne vous occupez pas d'eux; ils ne savent pas tirer. [...] Il y a des ennemis devant nous, derrière nous et sur nos flancs. Il ne reste qu'une place sans danger, soit vers l'objectif. » Paul Triquet, VC