Author Topic: Foreign Interest in Army.ca  (Read 40469 times)

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Offline AirDet

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Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« on: February 01, 2014, 08:12:07 »
Have any of you noticed that roughly half of the "guests" on this site are offshore? For instance this morning I noticed 196 users from Baidu, a Chinese access provider. I think we can understand that not all of those are just curious kids. If someone wanted to keep abreast of the potential of an army, tracking a site like this would be a great way to do that.

I've noticed the moderators have done a great job of making sure anything that compromises the CF and Canada is removed quickly. The problem is that once it's posted; it's in the public domain.

I encourage everyone (including myself) to ask a simple question before hitting the POST button. "Does anything in this post violate the site's rules or DND's security?"

We all play a part in information security.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 14:04:39 by kratz »
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Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 10:46:17 »
Have any of you noticed that roughly half of the "guests" on this site are offshore? For instance this morning I noticed 196 users from Baidu, a Chinese access provider. I think we can understand that not all of those are just curious kids. If someone wanted to keep abreast of the potential of an army, tracking a site like this would be a great way to do that.

I've noticed the moderators have done a great job of making sure anything that compromises the CF and Canada is removed quickly. The problem is that once it's posted; it's in the public domain.

I encourage everyone (including myself) to ask a simple question before hitting the POST button. "Does anything in this post violate the site's rules or DND's security?"

We all play a part in information security.
A while back on another thread, I came across a few guys talking about security clearance requirements for specific trades/MOCs, etc. I chimed-in and offered my opinion that they probably shouldn't be talking about this stuff in an open internet forum. Of course they took offense and proceeded to scold me as the idiot I obviously was because nothing they were saying was technically "classified". I tried to explain that just because individual pieces of information weren't technically classified didn't mean that it was appropriate to discuss them in an open forum. You can paint a very accurate picture through the analysis and amalgamation of multiple individual pieces of otherwise unclassified, but sensitive, information.

There are foreign entities monitoring these and other forums like it. It's a given today and everyone should be aware of this fact.

Offline MARS

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 11:10:50 »
"Managers do things right; Leaders do the right thing"

Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 11:44:40 »
Killing with Keyboards
Bingo. It is my firm belief that everyone in the CF should have to complete annual online training in this area.

Offline MJP

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 11:50:41 »
Bingo. It is my firm belief that everyone in the CF should have to complete annual online training in this area.

F*** that.  Well I agree infosec, persec, and opsec are important, I loathe to see another useless DLN online mandatory course suck up more time.  Those mandatory courses are useless except for  putting a stat on someone's Powerpoint.
Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 11:56:46 »
F*** that.  Well I agree infosec, persec, and opsec are important, I loathe to see another useless DLN online mandatory course suck up more time.  Those mandatory courses are useless except for  putting a stat on someone's Powerpoint.
:goodpost:

Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 11:59:16 »
F*** that.  Well I agree infosec, persec, and opsec are important, I loathe to see another useless DLN online mandatory course suck up more time.  Those mandatory courses are useless except for  putting a stat on someone's Powerpoint.
Whilst I agree that some of the online training courses we do today may be superfluous, few (if any) would be more important than this one, particularly in todays info age. If done properly, they are not useless (unless, of course, you simply don't give a f*** anyway).

Offline MJP

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2014, 12:04:49 »
Whilst I agree that some of the online training courses we do today may be superfluous, few (if any) would be more important than this one, particularly in todays info age. If done properly, they are not useless (unless, of course, you simply don't give a f*** anyway).

Yup important, you will get no argument from me.  I say people( and by people I mean leaders) just get a bit of intestinal fortitude and be leaders and lead when they see transgressions, rather than subletting that responsibility to an online crse.  I am using strong language not to attack you but the idea that more online crses will some how fix certain issues.
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Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 12:10:24 »
Yup important, you will get no argument from me.  I say people( and by people I mean leaders) just get a bit of intestinal fortitude and be leaders and lead when they see transgressions, rather than subletting that responsibility to an online crse.  I am using strong language not to attack you but the idea that more online crses will some how fix certain issues.
This is one of those issues that IMHO we cannot beat people over the head with often enough. It can't be left to leaders to correct indiscretions when they see them because with the way technology is so omnipresent in our daily lives today, it's literally a 24/7/365 thing. It doesn't have to be an online course - pick your poison - but it has to be ingrained and reinforced. I don't like it either, but it is the reality of daily life nowadays.

Offline DAA

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 12:24:35 »
F*** that.  Well I agree infosec, persec, and opsec are important, I loathe to see another useless DLN online mandatory course suck up more time.  Those mandatory courses are useless except for  putting a stat on someone's Powerpoint.

There are two reasons by you are required to do the DLN online mandatory courses, (1)  to enable you to carry out your duties and act in a somewhat reasonable and responsible manner, and just as important  (2)  so that when you do cross the line and step on your lower appendage, someone can say "Charge em or commence Admin Measures!  They had the mandatory training and therefore, should have known better!"

This is one of those issues that IMHO we cannot beat people over the head with often enough. It can't be left to leaders to correct indiscretions when they see them because with the way technology is so omnipresent in our daily lives today, it's literally a 24/7/365 thing. It doesn't have to be an online course - pick your poison - but it has to be ingrained and reinforced. I don't like it either, but it is the reality of daily life nowadays.

Too much training in any area outside of your "primary duties" on a repetitive basis, has the tendency to result in complacency.  The first time around should be sufficient and then reinforced every 3-5 years but when done annually, it just loses it's intended effect.  Besides, we can't babysit people 24 hrs a day.
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Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 12:36:35 »
There are two reasons by you are required to do the DLN online mandatory courses, (1)  to enable you to carry out your duties and act in a somewhat reasonable and responsible manner, and just as important  (2)  so that when you do cross the line and step on your lower appendage, someone can say "Charge em or commence Admin Measures!  They had the mandatory training and therefore, should have known better!"

Too much training in any area outside of your "primary duties" on a repetitive basis, has the tendency to result in complacency.  The first time around should be sufficient and then reinforced every 3-5 years but when done annually, it just loses it's intended effect.  Besides, we can't babysit people 24 hrs a day.
Once annually can hardly be considered repetitive and every 3-5 years on this topic is insufficient. And I would argue that infosec is one of your primary duties; it is one of the underpinnings for everything else you do, regardless of trade or MOC.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 12:42:51 »
One has to admit, the majority of CAF members are just as complacent now of Security as the General Public. 
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 12:45:22 »
There are two reasons by you are required to do the DLN online mandatory courses, (1)  to enable you to carry out your duties and act in a somewhat reasonable and responsible manner, and just as important  (2)  so that when you do cross the line and step on your lower appendage, someone can say "Charge em or commence Admin Measures!  They had the mandatory training and therefore, should have known better!"


I'd agree with you if the training actually trained you to do your duties and was relevant.  It is not.  I learned nothing applicable to my responsibilities as an aircraft captain by doing Contracting with Direct trade. 

There are many other ways to do such training without being a broad brush type training where everyone is considered the same.  Having 1 or 2 lessons during your specific training with refreshers yearly would have a far better effect than it has right now.

Doing those courses is as relevant to my duties as it would be for you to do my tactical training with a yearly written exam Taceval.

Offline DAA

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 12:47:44 »
Once annually can hardly be considered repetitive and every 3-5 years on this topic is insufficient. And I would argue that infosec is one of your primary duties; it is one of the underpinnings for everything else you do, regardless of trade or MOC.

I don't disagree with your point about infosec being important, I am merely explaining what I have seen first hand when it comes to "annual" types of training, similar to this, which are delivered online.

Login, commence the training, go about your regular job while returning to your computer to tap on the spacebar every 1-2 minutes to advance to the next slide/scenario, print certificate, log out.  The alternate option is delivering the training in a classroom environment, in which case it is usually "good luck getting people to attend", mandatory training or not.
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Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2014, 13:13:29 »
I don't disagree with your point about infosec being important, I am merely explaining what I have seen first hand when it comes to "annual" types of training, similar to this, which are delivered online.

Login, commence the training, go about your regular job while returning to your computer to tap on the spacebar every 1-2 minutes to advance to the next slide/scenario, print certificate, log out.  The alternate option is delivering the training in a classroom environment, in which case it is usually "good luck getting people to attend", mandatory training or not.
I have completed mandated online training courses on a range of topics and many of them have been very good.  As with most things, quality of the package and method of delivery will dictate effectiveness. Sure, if you want to post a powerpoint slide deck and have folks flip through it at their leisure and then consider them trained once they've finished, of course that's a waste of time. But it doesn't have to be (nor should it be) like that. I've completed online training courses that have been interactive, with video and audio, that required confirmatory testing in specific areas before being allowed to continue to the next topic, etc. They have been far more involved, and effective, than viewing a powerpoint slide deck. And there was no way possible to hit the spacebar to advance through the material to print your certificate of completion.   

Offline Transporter

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2014, 13:23:59 »
One has to admit, the majority of CAF members are just as complacent now of Security as the General Public.
I think I would tend to agree with that.

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2014, 14:33:56 »
I think regardless of the actual or desired level of IT security awareness training, it's important to know that foreign parties are in fact trolling Army.ca and other public resources for information.

It's important we stick to public, non-sensitive information when posting here. As noted above, sometimes even "innocuous" information can help paint a broader picture or connect more sensitive dots for the bad guys.

The example I use is folks who post their workouts on Facebook. Anyone who has posted their run time, distance and calories burned has allowed their weight to be "reversed engineered". Most don't realize the implications and it's a good 'personal' example that resonates about how public data can easily be pieced together to obtain private info.

Offline AirDet

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2014, 14:43:35 »
F*** that.  Well I agree infosec, persec, and opsec are important, I loathe to see another useless DLN online mandatory course suck up more time.  Those mandatory courses are useless except for  putting a stat on someone's Powerpoint.

Amen to that! I actually found myself doing that to others last year and had to give my own head a shake.

I just thought if we remind people to pay attention to these sorts of threats most people will comply. Those that don't get to deal with the moderators or their own C of C.
Just because an opinion differs doesn't make it any less valid. Remember those who gave their ALL to guarantee freedom of speech.

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2014, 14:56:09 »
One has to admit, the majority of CAF members are just as complacent now of Security as the General Public.

Amen.
I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard...

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2014, 15:38:00 »
Once annually can hardly be considered repetitive and every 3-5 years on this topic is insufficient. And I would argue that infosec is one of your primary duties; it is one of the underpinnings for everything else you do, regardless of trade or MOC.

Really, all it will do is take an hour out of everyone's life but it won't change minds or practices.  As it is now my people need to do the online Defence Ethics course every year and its turned into a joke with everyone vying for the title of who got through it quickest. 

Offline AirDet

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2014, 15:48:15 »
A few years ago one of our specialty sections was receiving test results from a contractor thru a MSN account. I almost lost my cookies when I found out. The guys had been doing it like that for so long they didn't realize what a risk it was.

To explain it to them I took an image off their computer and blew it up so we could see the pixels. Then I said, intelligence gathering is like this image. Each pixel is just one piece of information like the information they were not safeguarding. If someone gets enough of those pixels a picture starts forming. Zooming out they "got the picture".

Needless to say the account was shut immediately and a secure method was quickly established.

It's pretty easy to drop a "pixel" when we're chatting with fellow members.
Just because an opinion differs doesn't make it any less valid. Remember those who gave their ALL to guarantee freedom of speech.

Offline Nemo888

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2014, 15:50:33 »
They aren't here today unless they are real keeners. It's lunar new year and everyone is home with their family. But if you are stuck working 恭禧发财  ;)

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2014, 15:53:00 »
.....foreign parties are in fact trolling Army.ca ....
Our adversaries will presume that the CAF is the employer of choice for the indecisive, the illiterate, the self-entitled......and some who are medically unsuitable, but we should take them anyway.

Not sure if this is our best deception plan.    :-\

Offline Nemo888

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2014, 16:18:25 »
One single department of the CPC employs 2 million public opinion analysts to monitor the web. It would be hard to find a place on the net where they don't have a presence. Back in the day it was fun to tease them that we lived in an actual communist country and tell them how much people here were paid on welfare or pensions and then throw in what was covered by our state health care. If I was in charge there I'm not sure I would want the troops seeing how much better it is here. The cleanest air, water and food in the world. Pensions, health care, low corruption(in comparison), a free press, decent wages, etc, etc.




Offline George Wallace

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Re: Foreign Interest in Army.ca
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2014, 18:55:17 »
One single department of the CPC employs 2 million public opinion analysts to monitor the web. It would be hard to find a place on the net where they don't have a presence. Back in the day it was fun to tease them that we lived in an actual communist country and tell them how much people here were paid on welfare or pensions and then throw in what was covered by our state health care. If I was in charge there I'm not sure I would want the troops seeing how much better it is here. The cleanest air, water and food in the world. Pensions, health care, low corruption(in comparison), a free press, decent wages, etc, etc.

Don't worry.  I am sure all those Chinese tourists and business people who visit here with their cameras and gps have a good grip on our fresh air, natural resources, freedom of the press, Health Care, Welfare, benefits for Refugees, etc.  I am sure any fears of them knowing these things were dispelled decades ago.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.