Author Topic: Naval Reserves Officer Training  (Read 37270 times)

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Offline Walsingham

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Naval Reserves Officer Training
« on: May 30, 2013, 17:08:32 »
Hello,

Recently I have been getting a lot of conflicting or outdated info regarding the training for naval reserve officers. I have read the forums, some say its at CFB Esquimalt, Borden, St Jean etc.
I read on Wikipedia that CFB Borden only trains NCM. Then on the forums some said CFB Borden closed its NRTD while on the official site for the Canadian Naval Reserves it said you could still go there and for the CFB Borden site (http://www.borden.forces.gc.ca/998/9/73-eng.asp) I am not sure what exactly "Part 2 of the Basic Military Qualification" is. The site said it was an eight week course.

So assume you got accepted and everything, where do you usually go to complete the basic officer military training for the soon to be naval reserve officers? After that where do you go for your trade training? Lets just use MARS for example.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 17:24:15 by Walsingham »

Offline yoman

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 18:34:52 »
Everything for MARS is generally done at the Naval Officer Training Centre in Esquimalt, BC.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 19:06:35 »
Everything for MARS is generally done at the Naval Officer Training Centre in Esquimalt, BC.
Which is true... but if the OP was recently enrolled and is not now on his BMOQ then he is too late to do the course run at VEN this summer. His unit is probably looking at trying to send him on a Reg F BMOQ in St-Jean (room dependent). There is no longer a Naval Reserve BMQ for NCMs run at Borden; it is now being run at Valcartier.

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 21:38:27 »
In simple terms:

Year 1 = BMOQ and NETP-O at Venture

Year 2 = Occupation training

Year 3+ = further occupation training if needed

Log, Music, PAO, Chap take occupation training in Borden etc

MARS take training in Victoria



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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 22:13:56 »
I know this might sound like a stupid question but you will be staying on base right as opposed to a hotel for instance?

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 22:35:46 »
I know this might sound like a stupid question but you will be staying on base right as opposed to a hotel for instance?

If you wanted a hotel you should have gone Airforce.  >:D

Seriously though, you'll stay on base.
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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 23:15:46 »
Is it true you will have to take a french SLT course or something for MARS officers? MARS officer training is 2-3 years if I read correctly. Do many people want to become MARS officers? I do know there is the crazy failure rate everyone talks of. For a reserve naval officer, is any of the training any shorter than the regular force? So basically would you sign up as DEO for reserves, then get sent to Esquimalt for Basic Military Officer Training and then you get onto MARS training? Is your vision going to need to be very good? Or will glasses suffice? Thanks for answering all my questions so far!  :cdn:
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 23:35:59 by Walsingham »

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 23:29:25 »
Is it true you will have to take a french SLT course or something for MARS officers? MARS officer training is 2-3 years if I read correctly. Do many people want to become MARS officers? I do know there is the crazy failure rate everyone talks of. For a reserve naval officer, is any of the training any shorter than the regular force? So basically would you sign up as DEO for reserves, then get sent to Esquimalt for Basic Military Officer Training and then you get onto MARS training? Thanks for answering all my questions so far!  :cdn:

My info may be a bit dated, but:

Reservists do not take SLT. 

NAVRES MARS Training is the same as Reg Force until after MARS IV, where people split to go to their platforms. 
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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 23:48:07 »
You need at least a V4 vision for MARS as I know from searching on the forums, but lets say you got a V5 vision but wear glasses, is that still okay or is simply being V5 without glasses is gonna screw up your chances of being anything that requires V4?

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 23:51:44 »
V4 is the minimum enrolment standard. You would be disqualified from enrolment if you were V5.
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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 23:56:44 »
V4 is the minimum enrolment standard. You would be disqualified from enrolment if you were V5.

So if you see V5 without glasses you are screwed. If you are V5 but wear glasses and can see V4 with them, you're good then?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 00:57:06 »
So if you see V5 without glasses you are screwed. If you are V5 but wear glasses and can see V4 with them, you're good then?

 ::)

You had better be able to see better than V4 with corrective lenses.
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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 01:19:33 »
It was a hypothetical question lol. Is there a particular demand for Mars officers in the reserves anyway? So Mars training is expected to take 3 years max? Then you come back and join whatever reserve unit you signed up for right? 

Offline kratz

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 09:51:17 »
Quote from: Dimsum
My info may be a bit dated, but:

Reservists do not may take SLT.  

NAVRES MARS Training is the same as Reg Force until after MARS IV, where people split to go to their platforms.

FTFY,

NCMs and Officers may take SLT, depending on seats available and
their type of position, current employment and career progression.
These opportunities are limited and competitive for PRes.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 14:28:14 »
Is there a particular demand for Mars officers in the reserves anyway?

Well, Yeah!  Most Naval Reserve officers are MARS. The only other type of officer in the Nav Res are the Log officers, and they are a minority of the officers in any unit.

In the unlikely case where you bump into another type of officer at a Reserve unit, she/he is almost certainly a visitor, regular support staff or an ex-reg force officer who switched to the reserves.

Offline Privateer

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 14:54:34 »
Quote
Well, Yeah!  Most Naval Reserve officers are MARS.

By end of my time in the PRES, most new NAVRES officers were INT, either as MARS (trainee, usually) --> INT transfer, or as straight INT enrollment.  (In my own, local experience.)

Offline kratz

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 16:23:40 »
There are currently six officer MOS within NavRes:

- MARS, as mentioned the largest
- Intelligence
- Logistics
- Public Affairs
- Band
- Chaplain
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Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 01:14:36 »
SLT may be taken but is not required for MARS officers right? Is the training (BMOQ/entire MARS course) conducted over the summer for reserves? Do Reserve MARS DEO require to sit through NOAB? Also will you be doing D level training in the 3rd(last) year of MARS training or is D level not part of MARS training? If not how long does D level training take? So all in all the whole training is a three year thing from BMOQ to D level training? Do you guys think Law or Medical school graduates might have an advantage in MARS?

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 08:56:19 »
SLT may be taken but is not required for MARS officers right? Is the training (BMOQ/entire MARS course) conducted over the summer for reserves? Do Reserve MARS DEO require to sit through NOAB? Also will you be doing D level training in the 3rd(last) year of MARS training or is D level not part of MARS training? If not how long does D level training take? So all in all the whole training is a three year thing from BMOQ to D level training? Do you guys think Law or Medical school graduates might have an advantage in MARS?
- You stand almost no chance of being loaded on an SLT. Perhaps once you're senior and posted to a bilingual position, but not for the first few years of your career.
- There is summer serials. If you can't get on those for whatever reason then there are also winter/fall serials (primarily for Reg F members, but the content is identical).
- As a NAVRES guy, your only D-level options are Nav and Coastal Ops. Typically you won't do those until you're a Lt(N) (i.e. five or six years in).
- The Nav D-level is four months. Coastal Ops is three modules running to about two months total.
- D-level training happens later. Your occupation's functional point is post-MARS IV with a BWK and an OOD qualification, which is what the typical three-year model gets you trained to.
- We have lots of law students in the MARS trade; I've seen a couple of med students. A graduate in law or medicine would probably be too busy to dedicate the time for the training, but if you're available then great. There's no particular advantage, however.

Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 14:19:43 »
You'd probably have to go train in between jobs if you are too busy I guess. If I'd join MARS I would have to spend the three summers in Esquimalt living on the base/sea right?. So BMOQ/NETP-O and MARS takes 3 years then go back to your reserve unit and when you get promoted to Lt(N) you go for training, back to Esquimalt? After the BMOQ, MARS, D level is there ANY more training required for NAVRES officers to reach the rank of Lt Cdr?

If one is around 40 by the time they finish MARS do you think they'd still have a good chance of making it to Lt Cdr in the NAVRES one day or will it be very hard since there are many younger people with more "potential" or whatever. I'd like to serve my Queen (It'd be King once I am that old) and Country one day for around 10 years in NAVRES or even more if I can also balance with a busy civvie job like being a lawyer. It'd be hard but even on the NAVRES recruiting booklets and stuff it said NAVRES is drawn from many different kinds of people including lawyers. 

Btw thanks for the detailed answers!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 14:34:56 by Walsingham »

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 15:21:46 »
You'd probably have to go train in between jobs if you are too busy I guess. If I'd join MARS I would have to spend the three summers in Esquimalt living on the base/sea right?.
Yes.

Quote
So BMOQ/NETP-O and MARS takes 3 years then go back to your reserve unit and when you get promoted to Lt(N) you go for training, back to Esquimalt?
Well, you'll be at your unit every year in between courses - you never cease being "part" of your unit until you transfer to another unit or take a long-term (over one-year) contract, in which case you're posted to your contract unit. The location of D-level training depends on which D-level you take: Nav in Esquimalt, COPS in Quebec City. Some members never achieve a D-level; it's not mandatory to progress your career past Lt(N) in the Naval Reserve.

Quote
After the BMOQ, MARS, D level is there ANY more training required for NAVRES officers to reach the rank of Lt Cdr?
After the D-level (specifically the COPS D-level, which you need to take prior to promotion even if you get the Nav D-level first) you have met the pre-requisites for promotion to LCdr. However, promotion is merit based, not automatic: of 200-odd MARS Lt(N)s in the "promotion zone" nationally, about 3 a year are promoted to LCdr. You stand almost no chance of getting promoted without also achieving Command Part I by doing the 10-week Command Development Course, and by doing a LOT of time a sea.

Quote
If one is around 40 by the time they finish MARS do you think they'd still have a good chance of making it to Lt Cdr in the NAVRES one day or will it be very hard since there are many younger people with more "potential" or whatever. I'd like to serve my Queen (It'd be King once I am that old) and Country one day for around 10 years in NAVRES or even more if I can also balance with a busy civvie job like being a lawyer. It'd be hard but even on the NAVRES recruiting booklets and stuff it said NAVRES is drawn from many different kinds of people including lawyers. 
Age is not assessed as a promotion criteria at the merit boards. However, you stand no chance of getting promoted to LCdr in NAVRES with only 10 years in. About 15 years is typically the minimum, and that's for members who have been very active (doing contract work well beyond the minimum required courses and going to sea a lot). If your goal is promotion to LCdr, I'd advise against joining NAVRES; the equivalent rank of Maj is much easier to achieve in the militia on a strictly class "A" basis as their promotions to that rank are based on ranking within their units, and their establishment contains many more senior officers. In NAVRES you will be competing in a national merit process ranked against full-time officers posted to sea-going units. MARS is a sea-going trade, so unless you are quite exceptional, you won't get promoted without putting a lot of time in on the plates (and quite rightly).

That being said, if your goal is the opportunity to do engaging work in an environment that few people have the opportunity to serve in, and you can look yourself in the mirror having achieved "only" the rank of Lt(N) by retirement (assuming you're one of the 25% of MARS enrollees who complete the initial trade training to the occupation's functional point), then I can't recommend any better trade.

Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 16:09:09 »
Thank you for the bundle of info. How much time at sea do you consider to be a lot? Is BMOQ harder than BMQ in terms of the physical training? And physically, isn't officer training (the whole process from officer cadet to Major) for army reserves harder than officer training for NAVRES? I ask because I am not the most fit. I haven't tried improving anything yet but I will just give you what I could do at the moment. I could do 25-30 pushups max, 40-50 situps in a minute I think, 2.5 km in 12 minutes and an 8. something on the Beep test.

Is it possible for a future NAVRES officer to do weekend/summer BMOQ (if there is one) in CFB Borden which is close to me? Or must you go to Esqiumalt for everything?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 18:20:01 by Walsingham »

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 16:28:31 »

That being said, if your goal is the opportunity to do engaging work in an environment that few people have the opportunity to serve in, and you can look yourself in the mirror having achieved "only" the rank of Lt(N) by retirement (assuming you're one of the 25% of MARS enrollees who complete the initial trade training to the occupation's functional point), then I can't recommend any better trade.

Is it only 25% these days?  NOTC is getting strict with their standards (which is a good thing).
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 19:48:33 »
Thank you for the bundle of info. How much time at sea do you consider to be a lot?
I have the least sea time of most MARS LCdrs I know (put my time in on non-sea operations) and I have a year of days at sea, not counting days alongside, weekends, etc: 365 24-hour periods at sea. I would guess that's pretty close to the bottom of the credibility line - some might say it's too low.

Quote
Is BMOQ harder than BMQ in terms of the physical training?
I've done both. They're comparable.

Quote
And physically, isn't officer training (the whole process from officer cadet to Major) for army reserves harder than officer training for NAVRES? I ask because I am not the most fit. I haven't tried improving anything yet but I will just give you what I could do at the moment. I could do 25-30 pushups max, 40-50 situps in a minute I think, 2.5 km in 12 minutes and an 8. something on the Beep test.
I'm not the guy to ask about militia phase training. I understand that in the Combat Arms it's quite physically intensive.

Quote
Is it possible for a future NAVRES officer to do weekend/summer BMOQ (if there is one) in CFB Borden which is close to me? Or must you go to Esqiumalt for everything?
I'm not much of a future-guesser, but I can pretty confidently say that weekend BMOQ will never - ever - be available. The militia, which does weekend BMQ for NCMs, runs only full-time BMOQ.

Is it only 25% these days?  NOTC is getting strict with their standards (which is a good thing).
That's the global MARS retention rate from enrolment to OFP (at least, one I heard recently from a reliable source). That includes voluntary releases and remusters of people who figure it's just not for them, without VEN washing them out.

Offline Walsingham

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 20:40:57 »
I have the least sea time of most MARS LCdrs I know (put my time in on non-sea operations) and I have a year of days at sea, not counting days alongside, weekends, etc: 365 24-hour periods at sea. I would guess that's pretty close to the bottom of the credibility line - some might say it's too low.
I've done both. They're comparable.
I'm not the guy to ask about militia phase training. I understand that in the Combat Arms it's quite physically intensive.
I'm not much of a future-guesser, but I can pretty confidently say that weekend BMOQ will never - ever - be available. The militia, which does weekend BMQ for NCMs, runs only full-time BMOQ.
That's the global MARS retention rate from enrolment to OFP (at least, one I heard recently from a reliable source). That includes voluntary releases and remusters of people who figure it's just not for them, without VEN washing them out.

What is harder in BMOQ when compared to BMQ? Do you think one would do okay in it with the fitness info I posted? When you say when people figure out its (MARS) not for them, you mean that they are not up to standards for the job or they just don't like it? Why don't people like MARS if that is so?

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 21:57:49 »
What is harder in BMOQ when compared to BMQ? Do you think one would do okay in it with the fitness info I posted? When you say when people figure out its (MARS) not for them, you mean that they are not up to standards for the job or they just don't like it? Why don't people like MARS if that is so?
Okay - we've drifted into the "millions of threads about this already" zone. Do a Google search prefaced by "site:navy.ca" and boatloads of material from this site to answer these questions will come up.

Offline nick_the_guy

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Re: Naval Reserves Officer Training
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2013, 13:58:18 »
Can anyone comment on the length of each training course up to SLt? How many months it takes to do BMOQ, NETPO, Mars 3 and 4, BWK, OOD and any other courses that I may have missed? I just got a job with a provincial government and I'd like to take advantage of the various leave-of-absence benefits to take a shot at joining the Reserves (eyes set on MARS for the challenge, also since the local naval reserve is not hiring bosuns or LogO's :) ).

Edit: Oh snap, saw an answer to my question in another thread. Sorry about posting a redundant question.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 14:04:59 by nick_the_guy »