Author Topic: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]  (Read 193604 times)

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Offline Harrigan

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2019, 08:04:04 »
I have never been at a unit where they demanded a leave pass for annual leave, but have been at ones where a physical leave pass was only required when going internationally, as long as it is entered in the system correctly.  I don't really buy the injury part either, as I find it hard to believe that if one was unconscious in the hospital, that they are going to be reading the fine print on the back of a leave pass before determining what to do.....

On the other hand, I have been asked more than once at the US border to produce my orders, and when told that I was on leave, they asked for my leave pass to prove I wasn't AWOL.  For this reason I always carry a physical leave pass in the US (or anywhere internationally).

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Offline Throwaway987

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2019, 09:28:18 »
What happens if someone is injured while away from work without a signed leave pass? My gut feeling is "absolutely nothing". Everyone I talk to from Cdrs/LCols on down says the same thing: "it's to cover you in case you get injured".

I think this is a good point. Is being on leave a military duty? And therefore entitles us to additional health/VAC coverage?

Or is it just for the narrow case that we’re on leave and we get recalled from leave (duty begins with the recall)? And we also need to be injured during this recall to receive any benefits?

Does driving to and from work also count as duty and entitle me to additional injury benefits (as if I was recalled from leave)?

I’m trying to reconcile these leave pass rumours with the recent case about the Capt and her non-duty during work hours car accident.

I hear a lot of people suggesting that we should have a blank leave pass on file. It always sounded like baloney to me.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 09:31:21 by Throwaway987 »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #152 on: May 17, 2019, 09:29:15 »
*Cover you in case you are injured".   If I am on leave, I still receive the same medical care/spectrum of care from the CAF regardless of my TOS (Cl A/B/C, or Reg Force).  I don't pay for my treatment if I injure my back at home on the weekend, or dancing with a 75lb sonobuoy in the back of the aircraft during ASW flying.

DVA - if you were on leave when the injury happened, you were obviously not on duty.

I think this is an urban legend that won't die because people continue to 'pass it on because they heard it', much like "DVA won't cover you if you aren't wearing issued kit".  I have a disability pension from DVA, never once in the process did anyone ask me if I was wearing issued boots and gloves, yet about a month ago this "DVA won't cover you..." malarkey at an ALSE briefing when boots were being discussed.

I had short-fuse things come up in the past, emailed my CofC for auth to be away from work for 1-2 days, and got an email back stating "leave approved, submit the leave pass for leave tracking when you get back".  The email was the record of my leave approval at that point.

Next time you get told "it covers you in case you get injured", ask "covers with for what, and with who?".  I, for one, would be curious to hear what they actually say.
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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #153 on: May 17, 2019, 09:30:55 »
What is the purpose of a leave pass? According to the ref:

"When members are authorized leave, they shall be issued a Canadian Forces Leave Request/Authorization, CF 100, completed and administered in accordance with MHRRP, Chapter 16 - Leave."

What this tells me is that it is not the leave pass that grants leave. A member is granted leave by their CoC, and the leave pass is just an administrative tool used to track their leave.

Correct. It the administrative component.

What I'd like to do is receive clarity in an attempt to dispel numerous myths, and to that end my question is this:

What happens if someone is injured while away from work without a signed leave pass? My gut feeling is "absolutely nothing". Everyone I talk to from Cdrs/LCols on down says the same thing: "it's to cover you in case you get injured".

I call BS. Where does it say this anywhere? As far as I am concerned, a member is on leave as soon as he is informed by his chain of command that he is on leave. Is this not correct? If a young Private is told by his Warrant "go home for the rest of the week, the CO has granted you compassionate leave, we'll process the paperwork on your behalf", but in reality the CO never did get around to signing the leave pass, is the member AWOL? is the member "covered" if injured while away "on leave" without a leave pass. *I* don't think so, but the story I'm hearing (again) is that "well, he must have a leave pass! what would happen if he was injured during the first couple days when he didn't have a leave pass?!" Again, my answer would be absolutely nothing. The leave pass is not the authorization/granting of leave, it is simply a tracking tool.

Thoughts? Does anyone have any real insight as to why people keep saying "it's in case they get injured" and whether that statement has any actual merit?

I've heard this same thing for 40 years, and I've yet to see anything bad happen to anyone. The only time you might not be "covered" is where there is no service nexus to your injury... and then we're talking pension. The other instance would be where one engages in inherently dangerous pursuits without authorization; parachuting for example, and gets injured. Again, the implications are towards pensionability, not regular care.

Finally, I have one other similar clarification. You are never required to have a leave pass while away on a weekend, unless travelling internationally. What if you are travelling internationally, with acknowledgment and permission from your chain of command (including the CO), but a leave pass was never generated, what are the repercussion? Is it just the CO and CoC that are in the wrong for not doing the required paperwork as per the ref, or is there actually a risk to the member travelling should something happen while travelling?

(in all of these scenarios, lets keep it simply and assume this member is not part of a deployable unit that needs to be in area and/or on call).

If the member has written authority to be away, and traveling, then that should suffice. Notwithstanding, a leave pass should still be prepared, even if to describe the type of leave as "weekend". (Leave Policy Manual 2.1.04)

What about during the work week?

That's easy. According to the Leave Manual, leave is reckoned in working days. (Leave Policy Manual 2.2.01)

What I've seen at some units is that shift workers would count their first watch off as scheduled, including the next period of days off. The start of the next watch would begin to be counted in standard weekday/weekend format. IE: if you work 4 on/4 off, and take two watches off, your leave pass might look like "Normal time off: 8, Annual: 8, Weekend: 2" depending on which day of the week your second watch started.

I have never been at a unit where they demanded a leave pass for annual leave, but have been at ones where a physical leave pass was only required when going internationally, as long as it is entered in the system correctly.  I don't really buy the injury part either, as I find it hard to believe that if one was unconscious in the hospital, that they are going to be reading the fine print on the back of a leave pass before determining what to do.....

On the other hand, I have been asked more than once at the US border to produce my orders, and when told that I was on leave, they asked for my leave pass to prove I wasn't AWOL.  For this reason I always carry a physical leave pass in the US (or anywhere internationally).

Harrigan

How do they ensure that your leave is correctly accounted for?

When members are authorized leave, they shall be issued a Canadian Forces Leave Request/Authorization, CF 100, completed and administered in accordance with MHRRP, Chapter 16 - Leave. (Leave Policy Manual 2.1.03)

Note the imperative word shall. Somebody is not administering leave correctly.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #154 on: May 17, 2019, 09:43:29 »
Or is it just for the narrow case that we’re on leave and we get recalled from leave (duty begins with the recall)? And we also need to be injured during this recall to receive any benefits?

Does driving to and from work also count as duty and entitle me to additional injury benefits (as if I was recalled from leave)?

If you are on leave and then recalled, you are on duty IAW the QR & O once you are recalled.


QR & O, Vol 1, Chap 16

Section 1 - General

16.01 - WITHHOLDING OF AND RECALL FROM LEAVE

(1) Leave may be withheld from an officer or non-commissioned member only when there is a military requirement to do so.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member on leave may be recalled to duty only:
a.  because of imperative military requirements; and
b.  when the member's commanding officer personally directs the member's return to duty.

(3) An officer or non-commissioned member recalled to duty under paragraph (2) ceases to be on leave and is on duty during the period of the journey from the place from which he is recalled to his place of duty and during the period of the return journey if he resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which he was recalled.

(M) [2 September 2010 – (2)(b)]

Quote
I’m trying to reconcile these leave pass rumours with the recent case about the Capt and her non-duty during work hours car accident.

I don't remember there being information around that case that the injury happened during her units normal, posted duty hours.  If people are 'driving their kids to work' during normal duty hours, that suggests they are then, also, absent without leave.

Quote
I hear a lot of people suggesting that we should leave a blank leave pass filled out. It always sounded like baloney to me.

This a banned practice at my Sqn;  all leave passes are submitted electronically by the member using our PKI signatures.
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Offline garb811

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #155 on: May 17, 2019, 11:35:11 »
The only thing an authorized leave pass "covers you" for, with regard to any kinds of benefits, is it makes it easier to claim compensation should you be recalled from leave or your leave is cancelled and you have made financial commitments.  In this day and age there is zero requirement to have a hard copy leave pass, even to prove you attended some place for LTA purposes, or to "prove" you're on leave in order to cross a border; I've been in since 1985 and not once have I ever been asked to produce a leave pass for any reason, even when accessing medical or dental services at another base while on leave.

The biggest problem is we are still stuck in the 1960s when it comes to personnel management policies and procedures. Even though we allow leave passes to be signed electronically, the Orderly Room where I am at insists on printing off two copies of every leave pass, stamping them with "Entered into HRMS" and sending a copy to me snail mail with the other hard copy going into my leave jacket, after they annotate the leave taken on the leave jacket proper. Then, at the end of the leave year, they send me yet another set of hard copies, along with a hard copy of the summary of my leave recorded in Guardian, in order for me to verify they are correct.

I remember attending one of the initial briefings on Guardian and one of the selling points was being able to use the system to move from a paper based leave management system to a purely electronic system, like the PS has. Not sure what happened with that, no doubt someone freaked out about the hypothetical situations where they thought a hard copy leave pass might be required and someone wouldn't have one anymore.

Offline CanadianTire

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #156 on: May 17, 2019, 11:55:31 »
I don't recall ever being given a leave pass for any leave period, but I do remember on my first leave during pre-deployment being given a form that we had to have signed off by someone (such as a municipal police officer or RCMP) to prove we had gone home. It was the only time I'd had that happen.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #157 on: May 17, 2019, 15:37:41 »
I don't recall ever being given a leave pass for any leave period, but I do remember on my first leave during pre-deployment being given a form that we had to have signed off by someone (such as a municipal police officer or RCMP) to prove we had gone home. It was the only time I'd had that happen.

That's for Leave Travel Assistance.  I haven't used in a while (parents come to see me) but when I did, I went to the local cop shop to get the CF100 stamped.
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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #158 on: May 17, 2019, 15:40:22 »

What I've seen at some units is that shift workers would count their first watch off as scheduled, including the next period of days off. The start of the next watch would begin to be counted in standard weekday/weekend format. IE: if you work 4 on/4 off, and take two watches off, your leave pass might look like "Normal time off: 8, Annual: 8, Weekend: 2" depending on which day of the week your second watch started.

If you're on shift work (or even not truly shift work like most aircrew), you don't get "weekend" days but "shift duty off" or SDO days.  It's pedantic, but anyways...
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Offline garb811

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #159 on: May 17, 2019, 15:49:26 »
If you're on shift work (or even not truly shift work like most aircrew), you don't get "weekend" days but "shift duty off" or SDO days.  It's pedantic, but anyways...
There is no such thing as "SDO" or "CTO" or any of the other names people came up with:

Quote
2.2.01 Reckoning Time

Except in the case of short leave, leave begins at 0000 hours on the commencement date and ends at 2400 hours on the last day of leave.

Weekends, designated holidays and other holidays (listed in Annex A of this chapter), or in the case of shift workers, their scheduled non-working days (designated as weekends on the CF100); shall not be charged against any leave that is granted in working days although such days will normally form part of the leave period.

Offline CanadianTire

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #160 on: May 17, 2019, 15:50:47 »
That's for Leave Travel Assistance.  I haven't used in a while (parents come to see me) but when I did, I went to the local cop shop to get the CF100 stamped.

Yes, that's what it was. We ended up getting ours signed off by a random RCMP officer at the airport who seemed to have trouble accepting our story at first...obviously his first time signing one.
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #161 on: May 17, 2019, 17:30:32 »
There is no such thing as "SDO" or "CTO" or any of the other names people came up with:

Clarification: Do you mean there’s “no such thing” as CTO/SDO etc, as in no official written policy referencing/regarding those terms and their guidelines, or there’s no such thing, as in they don’t exist, period. CTO days are given (and they’re identified as such) at my unit to our RegF and class Bs every week for those who come in outside of their regular hours.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 17:35:36 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline garb811

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #162 on: May 17, 2019, 18:11:35 »
There is no official type of leave called SDO or CTO or anything other than what is in the leave manual and they should never show up on a leave pass. By definition, the way to deal with these kinds of situations is to grant short leave, one of the purposes of which is to, "...compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest".

I know that doesn't satisfy everyone or every situation though, which is why non-standard and unofficial leave policies start happening at the local level...

Edit to add: but the best way to deal with recurring instances of non-standard work hours such as happen at a Reserve Unit with the RFC and Class B folks when they have to work both daytime and evenings regularly over the course of the week is to publish a standing order that details their working hours. That way if they are not scheduled to work as per the standing order, it becomes a weekend day as per the shift worker clause.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 18:29:11 by garb811 »

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #163 on: May 17, 2019, 18:19:47 »
I hear a lot of people suggesting that we should have a blank leave pass on file. It always sounded like baloney to me.

That's stupid and completely unnecessary now with Monitor Mass. Anyone with the right access can go in and generate a leave pass and submit it for processing into the system.  I've done that numerous times for subordinates after some kind of family emergency came up and submitted it on their behalf (for compassionate etc). The actual authorization was given via email, so the leave pass was just to have it in the system.

Similarly, have had a request for leave come in on a weekend and authorized it over the phone or whatever. The actual leave pass was submitted after the fact and processed as per normal (with a comment that it was authorized ahead of time or something to that effect).

It's simply an admin tool to put the days in the system, and for things like getting LTA paid out. Even then if you don't get your leave pass signed at the local post office or whatever, you can always do a statutory declaration verifying that you did, in fact, go to wherever you were authorized to go and get the reimbursements under that program.  I haven't gotten a physical leave pass back in about three years, but still puzzled why they bother to print it and stamp it, rather than just digitally sign the process boxed and keep it all electronic.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #164 on: May 17, 2019, 22:10:34 »
There is no official type of leave called SDO or CTO or anything other than what is in the leave manual and they should never show up on a leave pass. By definition, the way to deal with these kinds of situations is to grant short leave, one of the purposes of which is to, "...compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest".

I know that doesn't satisfy everyone or every situation though, which is why non-standard and unofficial leave policies start happening at the local level...

Edit to add: but the best way to deal with recurring instances of non-standard work hours such as happen at a Reserve Unit with the RFC and Class B folks when they have to work both daytime and evenings regularly over the course of the week is to publish a standing order that details their working hours. That way if they are not scheduled to work as per the standing order, it becomes a weekend day as per the shift worker clause.

Another option is to simply grant the time off as a NWD.  We do this at my Sqn for both shift workers (anyone assigned to a formed crew) and non-shift workers (anyone not on a crew). 

Short days work, too...and are nice in that you can do it for either full or half days.
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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #165 on: May 17, 2019, 23:17:45 »
Short days don't work.  COs can only grant 2 a month.  What if, for example, you work 3 weekends days in a month?  What if it's during x-mas time and everyone else gets 2 short but you can't because you worked on previous weekends?  Call it shift work and make those days non-working days, annotated as weekends on leave passes should you need one.

Offline Harrigan

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #166 on: May 18, 2019, 01:07:52 »

How do they ensure that your leave is correctly accounted for?

When members are authorized leave, they shall be issued a Canadian Forces Leave Request/Authorization, CF 100, completed and administered in accordance with MHRRP, Chapter 16 - Leave. (Leave Policy Manual 2.1.03)

Note the imperative word shall. Somebody is not administering leave correctly.

Apologies, there was a typo in my previous post.  I meant to say that I have never needed a leave pass for weekend leave.

Offline Harrigan

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Re: CF 100 : Leave Pass [Merged]
« Reply #167 on: May 18, 2019, 01:17:05 »
In this day and age there is zero requirement to have a hard copy leave pass, even to prove you attended some place for LTA purposes, or to "prove" you're on leave in order to cross a border; I've been in since 1985 and not once have I ever been asked to produce a leave pass for any reason, even when accessing medical or dental services at another base while on leave.

YMMV.

While I have personally been asked twice at the US border for my leave pass, and I know others that have as well, I agree that it is a rare occurrence.  However, I reckon that going through the very minor irritation of having a paper copy each time I am heading south is worth it so as not to be turned back at the border, which presumably the US Customs agent could have done had I not produced mine. 

You are certainly right about some of our HR processes being antiquated, but I think it is better than it was 10 years ago.