Author Topic: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it  (Read 957 times)

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Offline Eaglelord17

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Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« on: July 13, 2019, 08:36:58 »
Just thought I would share this disgusting example of why many people don't have faith in the police nowadays (note this is the US, not Canada).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48969432

"Philip Brailsford, 28, killed 26-year-old Daniel Shaver in the hallway of an Arizona hotel in early 2016.

He was fired and charged with murder - but was acquitted at trial in 2017.

Records show that he was briefly rehired last year so he could apply for a lifetime pension worth more than $2,500 (£2,000) a month.

The move meant he could be medically retired - rather than fired - which made him eligible for the pension."

The bodycam footage of the incident is also out there online, you can make your own judgment call on if it was murder or not. Personally I don't think any of the officers actions were justified and they easily could have just moved forward themselves and cuffed them instead of this powertripping crawl towards us BS when the citizen was clearly stressed out and having difficulty processing the orders (I would be too with a rifle pointed at me and a person threating to kill me with it).
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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 10:07:32 »
Just thought I would share this disgusting example of why many people don't have faith in the police nowadays (note this is the US, not Canada).

Russell Williams was a soldier therefore I should have no faith in those disgusting army people.  { note, this was in Canada, not US]   Shake your head lad.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 10:23:10 »
Russell Williams was a soldier therefore I should have no faith in those disgusting army people.  { note, this was in Canada, not US]   Shake your head lad.

And even worse, a senior leader trusted by many and short time from being promoted to Brigadier-General. :not-again:

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 11:07:53 »
Eaglelord: I’m not quite sure what you were hoping to discuss with this post. News about bad apples, or questionable performance examples (not only in policing, but any job really) and perpetuating the negativities surrounding them are easy to spread. And the bad reports are certainly frustrating for many for many different reasons.

Unfortunately these types of reports and incidences aren’t helpful to anyone—Neither the several, several police officers who simply just try to do a good job every day, and/or the general public who may or may not need them at some point.

Let’s not forget examples of stories that make the headlines for positive reasons too.

As well, if you’re into Twitter, follow this guy:

Patrick Skinner, @SkinnerPm. “...Counterterrorism to local cop...”

His experiences, openness and willingness to share are often a good read.



Police Officer Saves 12-Day-Old Baby's Life After Newborn Stopped Breathing During Traffic Stop

https://people.com/human-interest/police-officer-saves-baby-stopped-breathing-after-pulled-over/

Five hero cops save baby just before July 4 fireworks

https://nypost.com/2019/07/05/five-hero-cops-save-baby-just-before-july-4-fireworks/

Cops saving people compilation

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ShS-WG2tew

Toronto police officer hailed as hero for arresting suspect without firing shot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/24/toronto-cananda-van-suspect-arrest

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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 12:51:13 »
Russell Williams was a soldier therefore I should have no faith in those disgusting army people.  { note, this was in Canada, not US]   Shake your head lad.

I simply said why many don't have faith in the police, I personally do as a whole but I also believe they need to be accountable (which things like body cameras are doing a wonderful job of helping with). I also believe that technology is exposing many to what was questionable tactics some of the police used to employ, but doesn't work now thanks to the objective eye provided by cameras.

Russell Williams is also a poor example for this. This would be more like a soldier in the CAF kills a civilian in a warzone well not following the ROEs, gets charged with murder as well as being discharged from CAF, gets found not guilty at trial, and gets brought back in for a short period to get a pension.

The part that really makes me mad about this is not that he got off for murder, rather that they felt it was important to bring him back into the police force to collect a pension. The killing could be put down to a poor judgement call, the pension is corruption involving multiple people. They even knew it would cause uproar but still chose to do it anyways.

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 12:58:24 »
Russell Williams was a soldier therefore I should have no faith in those disgusting army people. 

Russell Williams is also a poor example for this.

For reference to that discussion,

Russell Williams charged in 2 x murders, confinement, sexual assault.
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=90764.325
23 pages.
LOCKED.

Records show that he was briefly rehired last year so he could apply for a lifetime pension worth more than $2,500 (£2,000) a month.

The 21 paragraph settlement with The City of Mesa, Arizona is here,
https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/e4/4e/c852a86a4b3ba246e0b178759186/settlement-and-release-agreement-brailsford-00285866xc14de55832.pdf

He had been on the job two and a half years at the time of the shooting.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 13:24:02 by mariomike »

Offline Haggis

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 13:24:22 »
The part that really makes me mad about this is not that he got off for murder, rather that they felt it was important to bring him back into the police force to collect a pension. The killing could be put down to a poor judgement call, the pension is corruption involving multiple people. They even knew it would cause uproar but still chose to do it anyways.

Just finished doing some reading up on this case.  The cop was investigated and charged with murder.  Separately, he was fired from his police force not because of the murder charge but because of violating departmental policy.  He did not "get away" with murder.  He was ACQUITTED following a criminal trial.  Then, he contested his termination and was reinstated, without pay, to allow him to complete an application for disability benefits which was filed prior to his termination and put "in abeyance" by the city until the conclusion of his criminal trial.  Then, he retired.

Yeah, I agree that the optics suck and I believe that his judgement was questionable, which led to the murder charge.  But he was found not guilty.  Had he been found guilty, he certainly wouldn't have been reinstated and likely would have been denied benefits as well.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 16:09:24 »
I consider myself fairly pro police. The RCMP for example, despite being a relative bad-guy to gun owners (me!), I believe are unsung heros of Northern Canada and a lot of smaller towns. I think they do a lot of good that largely goes unrecognized and unappreciated. Without them a lot of people would be in a lot of trouble.  A lot of people owe their lives to the RCMP.

Like us, of course, they can do 100 good things but it's the few bad ones that catch the news.

Did a quick RCMP news search.
RCMP pay second $100 million sexual harassment lawsuit.
RCMP destroyed evidence in a murder trial that seen an innocent man wrongfully jailed for 17 years.

Pretty significant crap IMO.

It may not be 100% accurate but it seems like police aren't held accountable for when they frig up. I want to guess that it's like when SNCOs and officers in the CAF get in crap. They're not blasted in front of subordinates or troops, right? Could me down to optics again.

Another contentious issue is when police are suspended with pay.

-Const. Ioan-Florin Floria was found guilty of 4 counts of professional misconduct after being suspended with pay for 11 years ( accused by his employer of blocking a kidnapping investigation and using his position to aid a criminal organization.)
-Corrupt Hamilton police officer Craig Ruthowsky (sentenced to 12½ years, bribery, breach of trust, perjury, cocaine trafficking and weapons trafficking) was suspended with pay for 6 years before being sentenced.


The list goes on. It seems like a lot of these officers are making over $100,000 a year sitting at home. I know it's because of the collective bargaining and unions and crap. And police get falsely accused. A lot. So something like this protects them.

But there's gotta be some kind of fix for the officers that are caught red handed giving information to drug dealers and takes 5 or 10 years to go to trial, laughing about playing golf and sitting on the sunshine list.

The police, IMO, have the same problem as the CAF when it comes to idiot members. They don't seem punted from the service, they seem moved around year after year. By all accounts that Niagra police officer who was shot up by one of his co-workers, has a sorid history of being an ******* apparently. Lots of complaints against him that seemed to have gone no where.
Even the dudes brother says hes a monster and surprised he hasn't been shot sooner or whatever.

So why do people like this avoid the big boot? How do officers with odious records of harassment and abuse skirt the system so long?

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2019, 16:25:18 »
Same problem that ANY Govt organization has nowadays.....checks in boxes and answering ridiculous HR questions is more important then being a leader.  A leader that will make a decision and then take the heat.  Course that is hard when the whiny wimpies above you will cut you down rather then take heat..
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 16:48:45 »
It seems like a lot of these officers are making over $100,000 a year sitting at home. I know it's because of the collective bargaining and unions and crap. And police get falsely accused. A lot. So something like this protects them.

But there's gotta be some kind of fix for the officers that are caught red handed giving information to drug dealers and takes 5 or 10 years to go to trial, laughing about playing golf and sitting on the sunshine list.

Agreed.  This, from my agency's collective agreement, is what I think you're looking for:

"Stoppage of pay and allowances will only be invoked in extreme circumstances when it would be inappropriate to pay an employee.

Each case will be dealt with on its own merits and will be considered when the employee is:

- in jail awaiting trial, or
- clearly involved in the commission of an offence that contravenes a federal act or the Code of Conduct, and significantly affects the proper performance of his/her duties. If the employee’s involvement is not clear during the investigation, the decision shall be deferred pending completion of the preliminary hearing or trial in order to assess the testimony under oath."

Before our last contract, any officer suspended for any reason - even a frivolous civilian complaint - was suspended without pay and allowances.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2019, 17:38:03 »
Personally I don't think any of the officers actions were justified and they easily could have just moved forward themselves and cuffed them instead of this powertripping crawl towards us BS when the citizen was clearly stressed out and having difficulty processing the orders (I would be too with a rifle pointed at me and a person threating to kill me with it).

That’s not an assessment you’re qualified to make. “Crawl towards me” accomplishes a number of things. It keeps police back behind cover. It keeps police from crossing each others’ arcs of fire. It removes a suspect from the unknown space towards the known. It increases the chance that if the suspect has concealed a weapon (eg lying on top of it) that it will be revealed to police. It provides a gauge of the suspect’s willingness to comply. It creates a specific thing for the suspect to do with his hands- hands deliver the threat, and if the hands are being used to crawl, anything different from that will be immediately apparent. It prevents officers from having to expose themselves to new angles and unknown spaces that they cannot properly cover while focused on the suspect. It moves the suspect away from possible associates, tools, weapons, etc. It contributes to the psychological defeat of the suspect and to lessening their chances of thinking they can fight their way out. It allows police to maintain the most stable shooting platform in case they have to take a shot. It prevents police from needing to walk while potentially having to take a shot.

I could go on but I think I’ve made my point. It’s all about stacking the odds as much as possible in favour of a safe resolution. It’s about controlling as many variables as possible.

So no, it’s not ‘power tripping’, you’re just woefully out of your depth on this one.

I have no comment on the rest of the situation or story, I haven’t looked into it and don’t feel qualified to assess without doing my homework.
+1,350 « Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 19:19:48 by Brihard »
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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2019, 22:37:27 »

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Re: Cop murders citizen, gets pension out of it
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2019, 12:47:47 »
Readers can draw their own opinions regarding the shooting of Daniel Shaver from the references posted above.

So why do people like this avoid the big boot?

Once they're off probation, it isn't easy.

A big city department like Toronto police can transfer officers they have lost confidence in to non-patrol duties.

The only Toronto firefighters I am aware of who got fired were in recent years. They were career suicides via social media.

Toronto paramedics who are in serious trouble can claim PTSD, and go on Long Term Disability ( LTD ). It pays 75% with full benefits. I knew guys who had been on LTD for 20 - 30 years. That continues until they go on OMERS pension.

Since 2016, they can now also claim PTSD under the new Ontario WSIB presumptive legislation law. They are removed from 9-1-1 operations, and found a "suitable" job. That could be anything. But the important thing to remember is,
Quote
If the pre-injury rate of pay is higher than the relocated position rate, then the pre-injury rate is to be maintained. It is understood that the pre-injury rate is subject to all wage increases negotiated.

Sounds like this guy was fired , then re-hired so he could claim a PTSD pension.

The settlement with the City of Mesa goes into some detail on it.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 18:38:03 by mariomike »