Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Maxman1]

As the first Canadian ship to visit Antarctica, would the crew of Margaret Brooke be eligible for the Polar Medal?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its a great go, but my question is why? I listened to a clip from the CO, and she says, they have done everything but paint the ship red and white to show it is on a scientific mission, and not in the area as a warship or on a sovereignty mission.

Given the current fiscal reality, is there nothing better that the ship could be doing than being a research vessel? Unless this is a role the AOPs and the Navy had in mind for it from the beginning.

The answers below are all Navy speak for we wanted to do a cool trip with some cool ports.

Stop asking hard questions.

It's called showing the flag although I suspect there aren't too many people inside the Government who even understand the concept.
I wonder who on the political side of this signed off on it ?
It's actually quite cleaver on several levels,the diplomatic/ military implications are interesting...

A few points I would put forward:

- Training personnel and providing experience at sea, AOPS is a new class and getting serious deployments with substantial length is very valuable. Personnel generation for the class is important as it had been previously sidelined due to a lack of qualified Martechs as far as I am aware.

- Prestige/morale, this is the first time the RCN has ever deployed to the Antarctic and a trip throughout South America is excellent for boosting morale. This is the kind of deployment that makes peoples careers and they never forget, especially when they are getting paid for a deployment unlike Arctic work.

- Building international connections, going to ports and meeting with our allies/international partners is a good use of our time given the value it can provide.

- Antarctic research, this information is very important and it allows Canada to get involved somewhere it usually is not. It can help give us perspective on our own Arctic and global warming, as it affects all of us.

- Lack of other work, Harry DeWolf is deployed to the Caribbean on drug interdiction roles and the Arctic is not navigable this time of year. No other notable deployments that would be better for an AOPS at this time.

- Selling AOPS abroad, New Zealand had been previously interested in the design for Antarctic use but they canceled their program due to cost issues.

 

[Grimey]

Is rounding Cape Horn considered Antarctic adjacent? I was in HMCS Kootenay when we did that in 95.

That's news to me. A real rarity. Must have been a cool trip.

 

[FSTO]

Was it ever!!!!

That's news to me. A real rarity. Must have been a cool trip.

Strait of Magellan, Chilean inside passage, Valparaiso. Lasting memories for ever!

 

[Svanen]

As the first Canadian ship to visit Antarctica, would the crew of Margaret Brooke be eligible for the Polar Medal?

Not if the Polar Medal Advisory Committee wants to retain a shred of credibility.

 

[Furniture]

Stop asking hard questions.

It's not a hard question though, as pointed out by others you quoted. Just because you disagree with the answers does not mean they are not correct.

Warfighting is the smallest part of what a navy does. It can be the most important part at times, but it the smallest thing.

Navies are used to project a nation's influence through diplomatic visits, and to protect sea lanes from people who want to disrupt trade. Canada sailing AOPVs around both North and South America is Canada reminding the rest of the Americas that we exist, and we are rich enough to send ships out to pay visits and host parties. Parties where trade gets talked about.

As much as people love to whine that Canada is poor, and the RCN has no ships, we are doing that while comparing ourselves against the most powerful nations that have ever existed on the planet. Compared to our Central and South American counterparts, we are rich, modern and well equipped. Reminding them of that is not a bad thing.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's not a hard question though, as pointed out by others you quoted. Just because you disagree with the answers does not mean they are not correct.

Warfighting is the smallest part of what a navy does. It can be the most important part at times, but it the smallest thing.

Navies are used to project a nation's influence through diplomatic visits, and to protect sea lanes from people who want to disrupt trade. Canada sailing AOPVs around both North and South America is Canada reminding the rest of the Americas that we exist, and we are rich enough to send ships out to pay visits and host parties. Parties where trade gets talked about.

As much as people love to whine that Canada is poor, and the RCN has no ships, we are doing that while comparing ourselves against the most powerful nations that have ever existed on the planet. Compared to our Central and South American counterparts, we are rich, modern and well equipped. Reminding them of that is not a bad thing.

I'm cool with situations that get our sailors sea time and practical experience at their job.

Let's also not flower it up, it's a cool trip with some cool ports.

If we have a sustained and vested interest in Antartica and SA then I expect this will become a common deployment for a ship. At which point I will eat some crow.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Is rounding Cape Horn considered Antarctic adjacent? I was in HMCS Kootenay when we did that in 95.

FSTO mentioning their deployment 30 years ago should help reinforce what these kind of trips abroad can actually do for people, who are the backbone of our various forces themselves. Some Canadians never get to realistically go abroad, and getting to go abroad to places throughout South America and Antarctica is a far cry from rolling down south to Boston, New York or a western US port respectively. It can very much be a focal point for peoples careers and something they look back fondly on.

 

[captloadie]

Thanks HT for coming out with an honest response, I was wondering if anyone in the RCN would actually say it.

I don't begrudge the crew or the plan for the experience, I just wanted to highlight that with all the talk of the RCN wanting to be seen as a blue water warfighting organization (which it most certainly is), doing a research mission seems out of step with the stated intent.

In fact, if the trip was publicized using the points Rainbow1910 raised, then I think fewer Strat level people would be going "wtf, why'd we go there".

 

[Furniture]

In fact, if the trip was publicized using the points Rainbow1910 raised, then I think fewer Strat level people would be going "wtf, why'd we go there".

I'd suggest that if someone is at the "Strat level" and questioning the trip, and the value of "showing the flag" they maybe shouldn't be at the Strat level...

Who specifically at the "Strat level" is questioning the trip anyway?

 

[Stoker]

There you go, furthest south a RCN ship has ever gone. Not bad for a "slushbreaker"

 

[Colin Parkinson]

To the untrained eye, the open water does not look hard to navigate, but those growlers are dangerous and made up of multiyear ice.

 

[GK .Dundas]

For all those asking what's it doing down there. At it's most basic it's doing what Naval vessels have done since the first naval vessel ever sailed.
It's showing the flag announcing who we are and that we here to stay.
It's scientific research expedition,a voyage of discovery also something Naval vessels have done for centuries.
God some people work so hard to think small.

 

[Kirkhill]

For all those asking what's it doing down there. At it's most basic it's doing what Naval vessels have done since the first naval vessel ever sailed.
It's showing the flag announcing who we are and that we here to stay.
It's scientific research expedition,a voyage of discovery also something Naval vessels have done for centuries.
God some people work so hard to think small.

Showing the flag, including a bit of sales and marketing.

 

[childs56]

A few of you have hit the nail on the head, it needs a few more whacks.
But Our Military needs a purpose and avenues to show that purpose.
This trip down to the Antarctic is a once in a life time trip for our Sailors, going forward may become as familiar as San Francisco, Puerto Vallarta use to be.
One thing is for sure recruiting, training and retaining Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen/ Women is very difficult to do. Giving them a chance to travel around the world and see some neat places while showing our flag is an important part of doing that. If they happen to be doing their job as a Sailor, Soldier or Airmen/Women then even better.

My Step dad was in the Mediterranean back in the 70/80s on Navy Ships. He said the job was the same sailing in the pacific/ Atlantic or Mediterranean, But having unique ports to visits and interesting trips made the job all the more enjoyable. That is what kept him in as long as he served for.

 

[Underway]

Lets not forget the forcing function for relations with some South American navies. Chile in particular has been an RCN ally for years, and going to say hi is a great idea. Not to mention these sorts of things really smooth over relations politically and having some potential new trade allies is rather topical right now.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Showing the flag, including a bit of sales and marketing.

Trade follows the flag .
It was that way in the 16th century and earlier. It still is..

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There you go, furthest south a RCN ship has ever gone. Not bad for a "slushbreaker"

So crossing both polar circles, rounding the horn and crossing the equator, means elbows and feet on the table at a Mess dinner?

 

[Kirkhill]

Will Margaret Brooke complete a circumnavigation of the Americas, crossing the Northwest Passage and rounding the Horn on the same voyage?

 

[Stoker]

Will Margaret Brooke complete a circumnavigation of the Americas, crossing the Northwest Passage and rounding the Horn on the same voyage?

No