Opportunity to update the CC-150 fleet?

[Spencer100]

I mean there's the usual, almost inevitable 'Squirrel!'

But geez louis...




As for the actual topic, I'm amazed at how smoothly this replacement project actually went.

It seemed to go relatively seamlessly, with 5 aircraft being replaced by 9 newer aircraft - not only refreshing the fleet, but nearly doubling capacity.

Government certainly can get things done when they want to!
(Or the folks in this project management office just really knocked the ball out of the park!)

Begs the question of why we make our other procurement projects so expensive & delayed

Hmmmmm. I wonder why?

Could be the PM likes to fly? And the CC-150 is not cool anymore? No never the reason!

That the RCAF team did good work packaging the whole program to the PM's vanity. Win!

 

[dapaterson]

Hmmmmm. I wonder why?

Could be the PM likes to fly? And the CC-150 is not cool anymore? No never the reason!

That the RCAF team did good work packaging the whole program to the PM's vanity. Win!

Nope.

 

[Spencer100]

Nope.

No that the PM doesn't like to fly? or no the RCAF did not do a good job of selling it to PM?

Reason the jets purchase was moved was on the basis of the VVIP unit.

 

[KevinB]

Reason the jets purchase was moved was on the basis of the VVIP unit.

Doubt

 

[BdaDug]

Holy crap did we ever get off topic with this one, didn't we lads?

I mean there's the usual, almost inevitable 'Squirrel!'

But geez louis...




As for the actual topic, I'm amazed at how smoothly this replacement project actually went.

It seemed to go relatively seamlessly, with 5 aircraft being replaced by 9 newer aircraft - not only refreshing the fleet, but nearly doubling capacity.

Government certainly can get things done when they want to!
(Or the folks in this project management office just really knocked the ball out of the park!)

Begs the question of why we make our other procurement projects so expensive & delayed

It probably helped that procurement is part of the $38.6 billion plan to modernize NORAD announced in June 2022 ... maybe an easier sell in cabinet than fightie things (?)

NORAD modernization project timelines - Canada.ca

NORAD modernization is a long-term project and these multiple areas of investment will support NORAD and the Canadian Armed Forces’ ability to protect Canadians against new and emerging military threats to Canada and North America more broadly.

www.canada.ca

 

[dapaterson]

No that the PM doesn't like to fly? or no the RCAF did not do a good job of selling it to PM?

Reason the jets purchase was moved was on the basis of the VVIP unit.

Nope.

 

[dimsum]

No that the PM doesn't like to fly? or no the RCAF did not do a good job of selling it to PM?

Reason the jets purchase was moved was on the basis of the VVIP unit.

That aircraft does things other than VVIP transport.

I’d argue that VVIP transport isn’t even its main role.

 

[captloadie]

I would argue that we are increasing our refueling capability from 2 to 6 aircraft, and strat and VVIP transport are staying the same.

This likely means that the increase to back end crew for transport missions is not that much more than it is now, and there will be an increased demand for AAR specialists. But, it will need to be messaged strongly to the other L1s (ARMY and CJOC especially), and our political masters that there will be limits to how many aircraft can be used in a transport role at any one time, so as not to deplete the availability of cabin crew.

 

[KevinB]

I would argue that we are increasing our refueling capability from 2 to 6 aircraft, and strat and VVIP transport are staying the same.

This likely means that the increase to back end crew for transport missions is not that much more than it is now, and there will be an increased demand for AAR specialists. But, it will need to be messaged strongly to the other L1s (ARMY and CJOC especially), and our political masters that there will be limits to how many aircraft can be used in a transport role at any one time, so as not to deplete the availability of cabin crew.

Realistically if you need passenger/transport in extremis - a box lunch and sit down buckle up and STFU is also a viable solution

 

[armrdsoul77]

Interesting article about air-air refueling from the CC-137 in a heavily loaded CF-5 for the first time.

F-5 Pilot's Early Struggles Aerial Refueling The Underpowered Jet

A veteran Canadian fighter pilot tells the story of just how tricky tanking in a heavily-loaded CF-5 for the first time was.

www.thedrive.com

 

[captloadie]

Realistically if you need passenger/transport in extremis - a box lunch and sit down buckle up and STFU is also a viable solution

To dispel a common myth, the Cabin Crew aren't there to serve the passengers, they're there for the safe operation of the aircraft, and to lead emergency evacuations if required. So, it is unlikely flights would be authorized to operate without the minimal number required. Remember, A330s aren't tactical aircraft who are going to go in and out of contested airspace.

 

[dapaterson]

To dispel a common myth, the Cabin Crew aren't there to serve the passengers, their are there for the safe operation of the aircraft, and to lead emergency evacuations if required. So, it is unlikely flights would be authorized to operate without the minimal number required. Remember, A330s aren't tactical aircraft who are going to go in and out of contested airspace.

Exactly. Air Coffee Service Officers are there to serve the passengers.

 

[Spencer100]

MSN

www.msn.com

Liberals are going to waffle on this. No announcement till after election is my bet. Then if the Liberals lose and Tories go for the single source that get to use that as canon fodder. If Liberals win they get to test the winds. Its a good plan from a political angle. But then the crowd here doesn't believe the MRTT contract was driven by the PM need to have a new VVIP ride. Which it was....because past performance doesn't guaranty the future decisions?

 

[KevinB]

MSN

www.msn.com

Liberals are going to waffle on this. No announcement till after election is my bet. Then if the Liberals lose and Tories go for the single source that get to use that as canon fodder. If Liberals win they get to test the winds. Its a good plan from a political angle. But then the crowd here doesn't believe the MRTT contract was driven by the PM need to have a new VVIP ride. Which it was....because past performance doesn't guaranty the future decisions?

You seem to be suffering from some rather myopic rectal cranial inversion.

If the goal was as you state to replace the VVIP, it could have been done with a loss less airframes.
As opposed to what it actually was, support of the F-35 and NORAD Mission, with a bonus of having a spare that the PM can ride in when it’s not needed to do CAF work.

 

[dapaterson]

And the current birds were bought used to save money...

 

[Spencer100]

You seem to be suffering from some rather myopic rectal cranial inversion.

If the goal was as you state to replace the VVIP, it could have been done with a loss less airframes.
As opposed to what it actually was, support of the F-35 and NORAD Mission, with a bonus of having a spare that the PM can ride in when it’s not needed to do CAF work.

You make my point. Trudeau....I need a new ride. RCAF ok no problem we have a program to replace but it will take time. No move it along fast....Backroom boys....it looks ok as its part of the tanker program. Plus Boeing backed out. Great get it done PM needs a new ride. RCAF played their hand well.

Every other project in DND and treasury board has delivered nothing in the last eight years. But this program....its not hard to see.

 

[KevinB]

To dispel a common myth, the Cabin Crew aren't there to serve the passengers, they're there for the safe operation of the aircraft, and to lead emergency evacuations if required. So, it is unlikely flights would be authorized to operate without the minimal number required. Remember, A330s aren't tactical aircraft who are going to go in and out of contested airspace.

The RCAF loves to follow silly rules -- like running deploying personnel thru TSA like airport screening.
My point was if you needed to push some of the regular tanker A/C into passenger service (like flying troops to a staging area) it is easily done -- I don't think anyone is under illusions that the bus is in any shape or form a tactical transport.

 

[dapaterson]

Your profound ignorance of how long this file has been in development is interesting to see.

 

[dimsum]

MSN

www.msn.com

Liberals are going to waffle on this. No announcement till after election is my bet. Then if the Liberals lose and Tories go for the single source that get to use that as canon fodder. If Liberals win they get to test the winds. Its a good plan from a political angle. But then the crowd here doesn't believe the MRTT contract was driven by the PM need to have a new VVIP ride. Which it was....because past performance doesn't guaranty the future decisions?

Please read your own posted article.

That was about the CMMA, not the tanker / VVIP aircraft.

 

[dimsum]

You make my point. Trudeau....I need a new ride. RCAF ok no problem we have a program to replace but it will take time. No move it along fast....Backroom boys....it looks ok as its part of the tanker program. Plus Boeing backed out. Great get it done PM needs a new ride. RCAF played their hand well.

Every other project in DND and treasury board has delivered nothing in the last eight years. But this program....its not hard to see.

Let’s be serious here - the PM wanted an aircraft, we would have gotten it a lot faster than the current process.