Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[SeaKingTacco]

I would favour a system something like this:

Every night you sleep onboard a ship, you get paid $100 (totally random number).
Whether that was at sea, in foreign port or home port- you get paid.

You want to take all the duty watches from your buddies because you want to buy a new car? Fill your boots.

Simple. Elegant. Easy to track with tools we currently have.

 

[dimsum]

I would favour a system something like this:

Every night you sleep onboard a ship, you get paid $100 (totally random number).
Whether that was at sea, in foreign port or home port- you get paid.

You want to take all the duty watches from your buddies because you want to buy a new car? Fill your boots.

Simple. Elegant. Easy to track with tools we currently have.

Or in the aircrew world, switching everything to “casual aircrew pay”.

Me watching folks fight over all of the flights:

 

[Stoker]

Or in the aircrew world, switching everything to “casual aircrew pay”.

Me watching folks fight over all of the flights:

Some of recommendations that was sent out was a base amount everyone receives and so much per day while at sea and counting duty watches as well.

 

[Stoker]

Hard to say what they'll do, whatever it is I'm sure it'll won't go over well.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lots of people would stand to lose money, so I don't blame the troops/sailors who would be upset. They didn't make the current policy, but they would be the ones with less money in their pockets at the end of the month if the SDA/LDA policy changes.

My understanding was the idea at the time that SDA/LDA went to a monthly allowance is that it was an incentive to get people to accept postings to field and sea-going units, and reduce the staff time spent figuring out who was where, at what times, for sea/field pay.

As long as I have been in and from all those I know of before me SDA was payed out as is. A monthly installment with 50% on each pay.

The fix is easy. If you're posted to a seagoing billet and you're unfit sea you don't get sea pay. That's it, period. No exceptions.

Anything else is over complicating it. And going to punish the wrong people.

Some of recommendations that was sent out was a base amount everyone receives and so much per day while at sea and counting duty watches as well.

This is what I have heard is being kicked about and it's coming from the JRs. I wonder if they will feel the same when have your amount of sea time ?

It's easy at the beginning to look at what the chief gets and think why not me ? The reason young pup is they've been there longer and done more, they suffered more hardship, they get more pay.

Quick anecdote. When I was an OD at CFB Kingston clothing stores in the late 90s my Sgt used to go and play golf every Friday afternoon. For some reason that got my hackles up and I bitched to a seasoned Cpl. He snapped back and told me to STFU. One day I'm gonna be that Sgt and then I can too. That's stuck with me ever since. He earned that, I hadn't. And the older salts understood and bought in.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hard to say what they'll do, whatever it is I'm sure it'll won't go over well.

I think you're right.

For what it's worth, the only one in my Dept who put in input was me. The rest wanted to leave it as is. I said the rates should be dramatically raised, and the unfit sea equals no sea pay as I said before. Make it a cash cow.

 

[Stoker]

As long as I have been in and from all those I know of before me SDA was payed out as is. A monthly installment with 50% on each pay.

The fix is easy. If you're posted to a seagoing billet and you're unfit sea you don't get sea pay. That's it, period. No exceptions.

Anything else is over complicating it. And going to punish the wrong people.



This is what I have heard is being kicked about and it's coming from the JRs. I wonder if they will feel the same when have your amount of sea time ?

It's easy at the beginning to look at what the chief gets and think why not me ? The reason young pup is they've been there longer and done more, they suffered more hardship, they get more pay.

Quick anecdote. When I was an OD at CFB Kingston clothing stores in the late 90s my Sgt used to go and play golf every Friday afternoon. For some reason that got my hackles up and I bitched to a seasoned Cpl. He snapped back and told me to STFU. One day I'm gonna be that Sgt and then I can too. That's stuck with me ever since. He earned that, I hadn't. And the older salts understood and bought in.

The recommendation from the unit was the base amount but still payable in three tier levels to account for sailors with various levels of sea time along with the per day at sea and duty watches. There would be a cap not to exceed a certain amount total.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The recommendation from the unit was the base amount but still payable in three tier levels to account for sailors with various levels of sea time along with the per day at sea and duty watches. There would be a cap not to exceed a certain amount total.

I'm not picking up what you're putting down...

So sea pays stays they same with added pay per duty watch ?

 

[Stoker]

I'm not picking up what you're putting down...

So sea pays stays they same with added pay per duty watch ?

Everyone gets a base amount say for instance $100, $200, $300 dependent on your points. When the ship goes to sea you get a per day amount sort of like casual. Overnight duty watches are included like a day at sea which I like.

Honestly though and it was already mentioned, the biggest beef people seem to have is people receiving it when perceived that they shouldn't. Extremely difficult to apply that I would imagine except for unfit for sea you get nothing for everyone.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I always found the concept of land duty allowance or sea duty allowance to be stupid when not done like the casual system. Don’t physically go to sea or in the field you shouldn’t get extra for it.

Why should someone whose ship is in refit get it for 6 months afterwards despite no ability or opportunity to go to sea?

I do agree many would be upset that it is effecting their bottom line, but if they made up for it with a good casual sea/land duty amount, it would incentivize doing the job, the whole reason it is supposed to exist in the first place. Currently there is just reasons to game the system and no actual benefit to being at sea/field because your receiving it either way.

We could make it a good reward for those doing the work, and a reason not to avoid it.

 

[kratz]

Ah...institutional memory loss.

The current version of SDA / LDA / CASDA was created to streamline the benefits, make them cheaper and simpler to administrator, and bring all three closer in alignment with each other. These forums had full discussions on the implementation and right from the start members were observing or complaining about various aspects of this current system.

Pre-2007 (I'm hazy on the year), many of the suggestions Eaglelord17 and others upthread are discussing were part of the different environmental benefits.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Ah...institutional memory loss.

The current version of SDA / LDA / CASDA was created to streamline the benefits, make them cheaper and simpler to administrator, and bring all three closer in alignment with each other. These forums had full discussions on the implementation and right from the start members were observing or complaining about various aspects of this current system.

Pre-2007 (I'm hazy on the year), many of the suggestions Eaglelord17 and others upthread are discussing were part of the different environmental benefits.

Any change to SDA, LDA, etc is simply a cost cutting exercise. They will market it as something else to try to get some sort of buy-in.

I never cared if others were getting an allowance, I only cared that I was getting it. I think it's weird to care about someone getting an allowance I'm also receiving. Actually.... it's not weird, it's petty .

It's like Infanteers complaining about the rear-echelon having better living conditions. My answer: "No #### bud, you're the dummy that wanted to be Infantry".

 

[Lumber]

Any change to SDA, LDA, etc is simply a cost cutting exercise. They will market it as something else to try to get some sort of buy-in.

I never cared if others were getting an allowance, I only cared that I was getting it. I think it's weird to care about someone getting an allowance I'm also receiving. Actually.... it's not weird, it's petty .

It's like Infanteers complaining about the rear-echelon having better living conditions. My answer: "No #### bud, you're the dummy that wanted to be Infantry".

When I did the 5-month AWWD course in 2013, my ship was in refit, so I had recently lost sea pay. On the course with me were several students who were posted to ships that weren't in refit, so they were getting sea-pay. Not only that, but several of these students had failed the course on their first attempt, and were returning for their second attempt. There was only about 2 weeks in between the end of their first attempt, and the start of their second attempt (my course), during which I think they might have reported to their ships once, but pretty much just spent the time as PATs. So, by the end of it all, we had been on course together for almost 6 months, they had been at the school on course for the better part of a year, and throughout all of it, they were getting sea-pay, while I was getting none.

Yes, I was feeling bitter and petty.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

When I did the 5-month AWWD course in 2013, my ship was in refit, so I had recently lost sea pay. On the course with me were several students who were posted to ships that weren't in refit, so they were getting sea-pay. Not only that, but several of these students had failed the course on their first attempt, and were returning for their second attempt. There was only about 2 weeks in between the end of their first attempt, and the start of their second attempt (my course), during which I think they might have reported to their ships once, but pretty much just spent the time as PATs. So, by the end of it all, we had been on course together for almost 6 months, they had been at the school on course for the better part of a year, and throughout all of it, they were getting sea-pay, while I was getting none.

Yes, I was feeling bitter and petty.

So to summarize, you thought you should be entitled to sea pay and they shouldn't because you thought you were their better?

Sounds like a failure of negotiating better terms for yourself with the Career Manager

I haven't put much stock in failing things in the CAF in years, as most of the time the assessments are completely subjective . I did my Phase 3 Infantry with a guy who got #### on relentlessly by abusive DS and run off the course for really no good reason. They even sent out the abusive DS Troll we called "The Grim Reaper" to do his final assessment. We called the troll the Grim Reaper because you knew if he was assessing you, there was a Freddy coming your way .

That individual is still a friend of mine and is a Tier 1 Coy Commander now. I guess he was unfit for platoon command though

I also failed plenty of things, my last Freddy lit a fire under my ass and was the signal that I was going to get out and get what I deserved

 

[Lumber]

So to summarize, you thought you should be entitled to sea pay and they shouldn't because you thought you were their better?

Opposite: I didn't understand why they were entitled to Sea Pay (though if I was getting it, I probably wouldn't have cared ).

I also failed plenty of things, my last Freddy lit a fire under my ass and was the signal that I was going to get out and get what I deserved

What's a Freddy?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Take away sea pay like it is now. I dare you, and watch what happens....

 

[CountDC]

1. Cut all allowances not tied to CAFRD.
2. Make income and pensions tax-free.
3. ????
4. Profit?

Can't be worse than the smörgåsbord of programs, allowances and policies we have now. Right?

been saying 2 for a crap load of years now. I even go as far as to say freeze the pay for a few years and make it tax free. I would be happy with that and my filing with CRA would be a lot easier.

linking sea pay to sailing time isn't really that hard. The ship sails, take a roll call and provide the list of crew on board to the pay staff. Everyone on the list gets the allowance started that day, everyone else not on the list gets nothing (except maybe AWOL charge). When the ship returns to port cease the allowance for everyone.

 

[Quirky]

Take away sea pay like it is now. I dare you, and watch what happens....

AI or remote operated Navy.

 

[CountDC]

the old will leave, the young will join to play the new cool game.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You cant really equate, or we shouldn't have, SDA and LDA. Ships are vastly busier than a field unit and spend way more time away at sea than field units do in training areas. And not all members of a field unit go to live under canvass when a field unit goes to the field. The Army FUBAR'd LDA and doesn't have the gumption to correct it.

AI or remote operated Navy.

That is probably the future. Air and Sea will probably be mostly remote or AI. But that's not happening in the visual future.

the old will leave, the young will join to play the new cool game.

Half of your post is already happening, the other half just isn't.