CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[PMedMoe]

Pfft. I'm under 60 and I put my name on the wait list at KFL&A Public Health website even though I'm not yet "eligible" according to their rollout plan. If they deem the A-Z safe for 55 and older, and there's people that don't want it, start calling the wait list, regardless of age!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Pfft. I'm under 60 and I put my name on the wait list at KFL&A Public Health website even though I'm not yet "eligible" according to their rollout plan. If they deem the A-Z safe for 55 and older, and there's people that don't want it, start calling the wait list, regardless of age!

 

[Halifax Tar]

I love that we can do .gifs now lol

 

[FJAG]

For some reason that I'm not sure of, the London and Middlesex County Health Unit runs a separate website from much of the rest of Ontario for Covid info and bookings. As of yesterday we moved into the over 70 category unless you are in specified circumstances.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I guess I just have a good Doctor. She also has a pharmacy in her office. They called me to make an appointment.

 

[Altair]

Prime Minister Trudeau just announced that Canada will receive 5m more Pfizer in June than were originally scheduled (those were supposed to arrive much later in the summer). Pfizer has put us way ahead of schedule. We'll be getting 9.6 million doses just from Pfizer in June.

4m in April, 4.1m in May and then 9.6m in June. 17.7 million doses of Pfizer to come between now and June. And then there's Moderna, J&J, AZ and the x-factor, Novavax. We'll be in a good spot by the end of June.

The tally, by the end of June according to the delivery schedule.

Pfizer: 23.3m
Moderna: 14.2m
AZ: 6.4m

Total doses: 43.9m, enough for AT LEAST 80% of the eligible population who will actually agree to take the vaccine. Probably as high as 90%.

This does not include Novavax or J&J. J&J likely approved by the end of April. Could potentially push it to a hair under 50 million in the end. At this rate, until children are approved, we'll all be getting our second doses by late July I think. Just a month or two later than the US.

For all of the people who think we are failing.

 

[Weinie]

Prime Minister Trudeau just announced that Canada will receive 5m more Pfizer in June than were originally scheduled (those were supposed to arrive much later in the summer). Pfizer has put us way ahead of schedule. We'll be getting 9.6 million doses just from Pfizer in June.

4m in April, 4.1m in May and then 9.6m in June. 17.7 million doses of Pfizer to come between now and June. And then there's Moderna, J&J, AZ and the x-factor, Novavax. We'll be in a good spot by the end of June.

The tally, by the end of June according to the delivery schedule.

Pfizer: 23.3m
Moderna: 14.2m
AZ: 6.4m

Total doses: 43.9m, enough for AT LEAST 80% of the eligible population who will actually agree to take the vaccine. Probably as high as 90%.

This does not include Novavax or J&J. J&J likely approved by the end of April. Could potentially push it to a hair under 50 million in the end. At this rate, until children are approved, we'll all be getting our second doses by late July I think. Just a month or two later than the US.

For all of the people who think we are failing.

We’ll check this against reality in July.

 

[Altair]

We’ll check this against reality in July.

Even if this is spot on, I doubt you give the federal government any credit.

 

[Weinie]

Even if this is spot on, I doubt you give the federal government any credit.

I will give credit where due.

 

[Altair]

I will give credit where due.

We shall see then.

 

[Altair]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377014969041043458

skip to 1:25 in, and supply outpaces rates of administration.

Reports that Ontario has 500k vaccines sitting in freezers.

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Provincial Vaccination Tracker

Near real-time vaccination data for each province in Canada.

covid19tracker.ca

2,820,495 doses delivered​

2,192,253 doses administered​

Now I'm a simple man, but....

2820495-2192253=628,242....

Yet certain regions are shutting down vaccination sites, others are trying to scramble to get people to come for open appointments, and others are crying poor.

I remember saying that splitting the vaccination program amongst 34 different health centers would not end well, and I think we are seeing the fruits of this now.

Ontario government to have 34 different COVID-19 vaccination plans

Ontario’s COVID-19 vaccination plan is being splintered off into 34 different sets of delivery models, as the province tasks each local public health unit with creating their own strategy for administering the vaccine to residents of their regions.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Oh god, this will end well....

You are not hearing this level of disorganization from any other province other than Ontario. And to date, only the Ontario government (that I'm aware of) is complaining about federal supply.

=

 

[Altair]

Interesting.

Maybe use all the vaccines you have before complaining about supply.

 

[Haggis]

I know first-hand of several family members, friends and colleagues who are fearful of the AZ vaccine specifically or the COVID-19 vaccines generally. Due to the massive disinformation campaigns on social media and conflicting, sensationalistic reporting in both the MSM and fringe media, no amount of convincing from me, the PM, Dr Tam, or Doug Ford is going to change their minds. Extrapolate that view across a province of 14.6M people and I'm not surprised that AZ vaccines are not being fully administered.

 

[Altair]

I know first-hand of several family members, friends and colleagues who are fearful of the AZ vaccine specifically or the COVID-19 vaccines generally. Due to the massive disinformation campaigns on social media and conflicting, sensationalistic reporting in both the MSM and fringe media, no amount of convincing from me, the PM, Dr Tam, or Doug Ford is going to change their minds. Extrapolate that view across a province of 14.6M people and I'm not surprised that AZ vaccines are not being fully administered.

Is that a ontario specific issues?

Because every province is receiving the AZ vaccine in largely equal numbers.

So the fact that Ontario is lagging behind should not have anything to do with the AZ vaccine unless Ontarians are more fearful of them than the other provinces

 

[Haggis]

Is that a ontario specific issues?

Because every province is receiving the AZ vaccine in largely equal numbers.

So the fact that Ontario is lagging behind should not have anything to do with the AZ vaccine unless Ontarians are more fearful of them than the other provinces

I live in Ontario but work in Québec. My observations/experience is based on those two provinces only.

 

[Altair]

I live in Ontario but work in Québec. My observations/experience is based on those two provinces only.

Sure, but when we are dealing with a Canada wide vaccine distribution program, the only real variables are going to be how the vaccines are distributed, not what vaccines we are getting.

And when Ontario said that they would have 34 different health units running the vaccination rollout in the province I had my doubts. Currently, the mess that is the Ontario rollout and with Ontario blaming the feds and the feds blaming Ontario is kind of proving my point. Quebec seems to be doing fine, and they have the large population and geographical size issues that Ontario has, yet you do not have Premier Legault criticizing the Federal government.

You have the western provinces, with premiers who are no friend of PM Trudeau, and they haven't said much.

And you have Ontario, again, closing vaccination sites in one region, begging for people to show up in other regions, and some regions saying they do not have enough vaccines, but the province sitting on 600k while people die and the province goes into another lockdown.

Which again, leads me to say, its not a supply problem.

 

[cavalryman]

I'm not defending Justin but this statement is only from a Chinese consul in Brazil.

Do we really need to be worried about what some random Chinese consul in Brazil says about Justin? Will it even really influence anything?

Just seems like a non-story to me no matter what side of the political spectrum you fall under.

Maybe this will keep escalating but for now it should be kept in perspective.

Do you think that Chinese consul in Brazil acted on his own, or did he do it on orders from Beijing? The PRC regime rarely does things at random, let alone allow its officials to speak without permission. China was sending Trudeau a message via said random consul. Bet on it.

 

[Mills Bomb]

Sure, but when we are dealing with a Canada wide vaccine distribution program, the only real variables are going to be how the vaccines are distributed, not what vaccines we are getting.

And when Ontario said that they would have 34 different health units running the vaccination rollout in the province I had my doubts. Currently, the mess that is the Ontario rollout and with Ontario blaming the feds and the feds blaming Ontario is kind of proving my point. Quebec seems to be doing fine, and they have the large population and geographical size issues that Ontario has, yet you do not have Premier Legault criticizing the Federal government.

You have the western provinces, with premiers who are no friend of PM Trudeau, and they haven't said much.

And you have Ontario, again, closing vaccination sites in one region, begging for people to show up in other regions, and some regions saying they do not have enough vaccines, but the province sitting on 600k while people die and the province goes into another lockdown.

Which again, leads me to say, its not a supply problem

If Ontario is doing so poorly at the vaccine rollout why are they so far ahead of the other provinces in doses administered?

I just looked at the vaccine tracker and Ontario is FAR ahead of everyone else at the moment.

You mentioned Quebec, which I think is considered by all to be the worst struck province for COVID, as of right now they have administered only 1349326 doses vs. Ontario's 2192253. Thats 842000+ more doses administered in Ontario. Ontario is only roughly 38% bigger than Quebec and yet they have administered about 62% more doses.

Western provinces haven't even administered anywhere near that. They are all still well under one million doses administered.

It is well known these vaccine doses require precise storage and delivery conditions, if you're relying on more deliveries that don't come I don't think it's as simple as just taking surpluses from elsewhere and diverting them, you would need a plan to replace those stocks also at that point and it could be worse than just waiting out. For this plan to work plane and simple it relies on both the feds and provincial politicians to work together and ensure deliveries where required. If the feds fail to deliver somewhere, it may be unreasonable for the province to re-divert doses intended for elsewhere to where the expected batches aren't delivered even if there is a surplus in one area. Ontario has been doing a good job of getting people on waiting lists for unused vaccines as well, and right now there is a hold up with AstraZ as they are re-evaluating how safe it is for certain ages which is likely also a holdup.

To me it seems like a bit of a stretch to put blame on a province that is leading, substantially, in doses administered. If anyone would want the feds to hurry up with deliveries it's pretty obvious why it would be Ontario being most vocal, they are administering doses at the fastest rate. For that reason, I'm having trouble finding why you would be looking to put the blame on them right now.

 

[Altair]

If Ontario is doing so poorly at the vaccine rollout why are they so far ahead of the other provinces in doses administered?

they are ahead in total doses, but they have a bigger population, so in terms of vaccines per resident, they are lagging.

I just looked at the vaccine tracker and Ontario seems to FAR ahead of everyone else at the moment.

They have more people to administer, so they are not far ahead.

You mentioned Quebec, which I think is considered by all to be the worst struck province for COVID, as of right now they have administered only 1349326 doses vs. Ontario's 2192253. Thats 842000+ more doses administered in Ontario. Ontario is only roughly 38% bigger than Quebec and yet they have administered about 62% more doses.

The math here isn't hard.

Vaccines administered in Ontario-2,192,253/ population of Ontario-14745040=14.87 of the population vaccinated.

Vaccines administered in Quebec-1,349,326/ population of Quebec - 8,494,500= 15.88 percent of the population vaccinated.

Western provinces haven't even administered anywhere near that. They are all still well under one million doses administered.

Yes, but smaller populations. Look above.

And while they may have vaccinated less as a percentage of the population compared to Ontario, look at how much they have administered of what they got.

Alberta has distributed 89 percent of the vaccines they have gotten from the feds.

Saskatchewan 86 percent.

The only real laggard out west is Manitoba, but they don't have the gall to blame the feds for their rollout. For reference, Ontario, while complaining they don't have enough vaccines, has 600 000 sitting in freezers. They have only used 77.8 percent of the vaccines the feds have given them. And there are stories coming out daily about how different health regions are closing down vaccination sites, and others saying they don't have near enough. While 600,000 sit in storage.

It is well known these vaccine doses require precise storage and delivery conditions, if you're relying on more deliveries that don't come I don't think it's as simple as just taking surpluses from elsewhere and diverting them, you would need a plan to replace those stocks also at that point and it could be worse than just waiting out. For this plan to work plane and simple it relies on both the feds and provincial politicians to work together and ensure deliveries where required. If the feds fail to deliver somewhere, it may be unreasonable for the province to re-divert doses intended for elsewhere to where the expected batches aren't delivered even if there is a surplus in one area. Ontario has been doing a good job of getting people on waiting lists for unused vaccines as well, and right now there is a hold up with AstraZ as they are re-evaluating how safe it is for certain ages.

Everyone is doing this. Every province.

To me it seems like a bit of a stretch to put blame on a province that is leading in doses administered.

They are not leading squat.

 

[Mills Bomb]

they are ahead in total doses, but they have a bigger population, so in terms of vaccines per resident, they are lagging.

They have more people to administer, so they are not far ahead.

The math here isn't hard.

Vaccines administered in Ontario-2,192,253/ population of Ontario-14745040=14.87 of the population vaccinated.

Vaccines administered in Quebec-1,349,326/ population of Quebec - 8,494,500= 15.88 percent of the population vaccinated.

Because Ontario is much larger you need to factor that it's more difficult to scale the vaccine rollout.

Because of scalability, the other smaller provinces SHOULD be ahead in percentage of residents vaccinated. It doesn't mean Ontario is doing a bad job. It just means they have a bigger project on their hands. Ontario is doing just fine given they are the biggest province and are still by far the leader in actually administering doses.

If you don't factor scalability, and we use your math that "isn't hard" then assuming the level of competence in every province is the exact same Ontario will loose in your comparison every single time.

To break this concept down a bit more, it is a lot harder for any business to fill 1000 order than 100 orders. A business that successfully fills 950 out of 1000 order will ALWAYS be a bigger and better business than one that fills 98 out 100 orders because we don't know what would happen to the business that does only 100 orders if they tried to do 1000.

Doing your kind of math for this topic isn't going to paint a clear picture because what's happening here is a massive project that will naturally be tougher for Ontario because they need to scale it much larger. If you can't understand that you are not familiar with projects of this level. By the same logic if there was a province of only 10,000 people and all 10,000 were already vaccinated you would like call them the winner even though they had a much smaller challenge ahead of them, so like your comparison it would also be extremely unfair.