Poll

Which do you prefer

Sacrifice Medal
Wound Stripe

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Offline Gunner

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2006, 22:25:28 »
There was a good thread on the wound stripe, take a look as I think it provides the reference of where to wear it.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,31133.0.html
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline --NES--

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2006, 22:45:01 »
Piper left sleeve abpve the wrist but I'll find out 100% soonest.

Thanks.  :salute:

BTW.. were you in our room, in Landstuhl, when that 4 star General was handing out the coins, or did he catch you in the computer room?
(I was on lots of morphine... I don't remember if you were in the room... I just remember the coin and his rant)
Anyway, He asked me what Canadians recieved for being wounded in combat and I told him about the wound stripe.
His response was pretty impressive... I won't repeat it due to the surprising amount of profanity.  But, he went into a rant about how he wanted to ensure that all Canadian soldiers wounded in Afghanistan would at least recieve a "purple heart"... Possibly a Bronze star as well...
I found this very amusing...  probably due to the morphine... He seemed pretty upset about the whole 'lack of medal' thing...
I was too mesmerized by the sparkly coin.

After enquiring about it, I learned that foreign medals cannot officially be worn on DEUs (According to the RSM of LFCA HQ anyway)
Anyone have any thoughts on this one?  Have any Canadian soldiers been officially issued medals from the US?  I remember reading something somewhere about the US wanting to issue Silver stars to CF snipers for their support in Afghanistan, but the article didn't specify weather or not they were actually issued the medals or if they're allowed to wear them.

Any thoughts?  or have I just stirred up the wasps nest?
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Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2006, 22:52:55 »
Piper yeah I was there, but the RSM is wrong, well not totally wrong just mostly.. you can wear a foreign medal if it is approved by Ottawa before hand like the PPCLI soldiers who received the bronze star for actions in Afghanistan on 2002.

However on further thought it's also something to look into as well as the wound strip thing, Yet one more question I'll get back to you on ASAP.
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline --NES--

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2006, 22:57:34 »
There was a good thread on the wound stripe, take a look as I think it provides the reference of where to wear it.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,31133.0.html

This link pretty much answers both questions...

Cheers.
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Offline Gunner

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2006, 22:59:10 »
Quote
He seemed pretty upset about the whole 'lack of medal' thing...

Our honours and awards system, based on our traditions, are different.

Quote
After enquiring about it, I learned that foreign medals cannot officially be worn on DEUs (According to the RSM of LFCA HQ anyway) Anyone have any thoughts on this one?  Have any Canadian soldiers been officially issued medals from the US? 

There is a well established diplomatic method for CF members to be authorized to wear foreign medals.  It takes awhile but it does work.  Quite a few Canadians (some would cynically say most), sr NCOs and sr officers, who serve with US forces are awarded Bronze Stars and Meritorious Service Medals.  The other part of this question, is if a Canadian does something brave or meritorious, there is a Canadian system of recognition for that person. 

Bottom line, the US has a system that works for them and is based on their history.  I'm not yet ready to throw out or system simply so people can have more medals on their chest.  Leave that for commemorative medals....   ::)
 
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline Gunner

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2006, 23:03:37 »
This link pretty much answers both questions...
Cheers.

Now that I reread the thread, there is a lot of crap in there as well.  Sorry about that, you'll have to read between to get at the good discussion.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline --NES--

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2006, 23:14:38 »
Now that I reread the thread, there is a lot of crap in there as well.  Sorry about that, you'll have to read between to get at the good discussion.

I did... I found what I need... wound stripe on lower right sleeve of the uniform...

As for the medals... I'm not going to lose sleep over it... I'll get a CD in 4 years either way.
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Offline geo

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2006, 10:03:08 »
As for the medal... hell... I was only in the sandbox for 3 weeks before getting strafed by A-10's.
It may well be the only medal I get...
Well...  except for the 2 pieces next to my kidneys. (the only ones that matter)
If memory serves me right, if you were wounded over there and reptriated for said reason, you should be entitled to the medal that everyone on the Roto gets.......
gotta look this up!!!
Chimo!

Offline cplcaldwell

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2006, 10:22:48 »
geo, see my bolding in the body of the text, this is the first reference I can find, maybe not the best, but official, located at this link


General Service Medal
General Campaign Star

The GCS will be awarded to CF members and to members of allied forces working with the CF who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy.

The GSM will be awarded to CF members and to members of allied forces working with the CF who deploy outside Canada and provide direct support on a full-time basis to operations in the presence of an armed enemy. The GSM may also be awarded to Canadian citizens who are not CF members and who are deployed outside Canada, either in or outside of a theatre of operation, and working with the CF to provide direct support on a full-time basis to operations in the presence of an armed enemy.

When you first receive the GCS or GSM, it will be awarded with a bar specifying the operation on which you have deployed. Awards marking subsequent service will consist of a bar only, to be added to your original star or medal and bar.

If you have served honourably, you are eligible for either award, even if you were repatriated for medical reasons directly attributable to your service. Personnel who die during their service and whose deaths are attributable to that service are also eligible. Either the star or the medal will be awarded for service on a specific operation – service in different theatres of operation or areas cannot be combined to meet eligibility requirements for either award.

Your GCS or GSM will be engraved with your service number, abbreviated rank, initials and surname. The rank engraved will be the rank you held at the time of the eligible service, not necessarily your current rank. Civilian recipients’ full names will be engraved.

If you are a serving CF member, the CO of your current unit will apply on your behalf. If you are a civilian, the CO of the unit with which you were serving will apply on your behalf. If you are a retired CF member or civilian, you yourself may apply:

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Offline --NES--

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2006, 11:30:56 »
Found some info on the wound stripe

How do I wear my wound stripe?
A wound stripe is worn on the left sleeve of undress and Service Dress jackets only, positioned either 12 cm above the bottom of the sleeve or 1.2 cm above an existing badge. Visit http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/downloads/cfps/cfp265.pdf (Intranet users only) and view figure 3-6-1 on page 119 of the CF Dress Instructions.

Well... there it is...  :salute: :cdn:
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Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2006, 11:40:03 »
Ha I was right the first time, I gotta stop doubting myself  ;D
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2006, 11:46:37 »
And for you folks that, a) forgot to duck, and b) are into fancy costumes, Joe Drouin (airborne kitshop) will be more than happy to sell you Mess Kit wound stripes.  ;D  www.joedrouin.com
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Iterator

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2006, 16:37:57 »
Noticing that no one is arguing to just get rid of the Wound Stripe - everyone seems favourable to having a distinction for those wounded. So Badge or Medal? With there being no Right or Wrong on this we get plenty of opinion.

The Badge has been cited for the following (- I include a response to each):

   1) The option of not wearing it.
   - If we wanted to we could apply the same rule to a medal.

   2) Being wounded rates a badge rather than a medal.
   - Merely opinion, I disagree, but I would say Champion Shot rates a badge rather than a medal.

   3) The Americans don't use it.
   - True, but I thought we had moved past that line of reasoning.
   Maybe a better statement would have been "just because the US does it a different way doesn't mean we have to change".

   4) 90+ years of off-and-on use by Canada.
   - Hmmm... hard to argue with that, but then again it isn't quite a clincher (and the stripe wasn't a Canadian idea to begin with was it?)


I believe medals are better than stripes as a way of displaying this kind of information (campaigns, valour, merit), but there are no concrete reasons - only preferences.

Medals (ribbons) scale better when wearing short sleeves then Long Sleeve arm badges do. And, without cuffs, the Wound Stripe just seems misplaced on the DEUs.

As for what actual medal to use...
Quote
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060921/medals_wounded_060921/20060921/
Sinnott envisions a distinctive, enamelled crimson maple leaf set against a white background.
Well... I'm pretty Maple Leaf'd out, but there are plenty of options for the ribbon - you could stick with the suggestion in the article of white with a red device or; red with a black device (reminiscent of a poppy); black with a red device (inverse of a poppy); or purple and tie it into the Memorial Cross. Anyways... the details aren't the deciding factor.


...Now to bring back the service chevrons[/url] and perhaps some gorget patches...
It's not like I'm strongly opposed to the Wound Stripe, but the old ways are not always the best ways, some military fashions/styles just fade. Medals (and their ribbons) are an efficient way to display (and honour) this information and have a lot of cross-cultural understanding not only between nations but by civilians as well, and will probably be a fixture on military uniforms for many years.
Pro Patria

Offline Red 6

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2006, 16:52:45 »
Hey ya'll: Decorations such as the Silver Star, Bronze Star, etc, can be awarded to Allied service members, as you already know. Somebody asked a question further up on whether the Purple Heart can be awarded to Allied service members. Here's your answer:

a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded-

      (1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.

      (2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.

      (3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

      (4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.

      (5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force

      (6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.

      (7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2006, 18:14:19 »
Granny,

You should make a yes or no poll out of this thread. We'll then see what the consensus is!!
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

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Offline military granny

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2006, 18:20:31 »
I dont know how to do that but if any of you mods want to then feel free to do so.
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Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2006, 09:38:01 »




As per your request Granny       ;)
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2006, 09:38:52 »
I say Aye,

dileas

tess
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Offline Babbling Brooks

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2006, 11:51:41 »
I wanted to add a couple of points I haven't seen made already.

First, the wound stripe is far more flexible than a medal would be.

You have to wear your medals.  You choose to wear a wound stripe.  Can you imagine someone with PTSD awarded a medal and being forced to wear it?  Or someone who had their private parts taken out?  Right now, they would be awarded a wound stripe with the option of a private or public ceremony, and the option of wearing it or not.

And you can wear the wound stripe on civilian clothing - once you've been granted the dress distinction, you can wear it on a shirt sleeve to a pub if you wish.  Can't do that with a medal.

Second, if you're looking for a concise summary, with links to resources on the topic, I put up a post over at The Torch a few months back that covers things reasonably well: http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2006/03/wound-stripe.html

Not that my opinion should count for much, but I don't see anything wrong with our current tradition.  It puts choice back in the hands of the wounded soldier.
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2006, 12:02:28 »

And you can wear the wound stripe on civilian clothing - once you've been granted the dress distinction, you can wear it on a shirt sleeve to a pub if you wish.  Can't do that with a medal.

You can wear medals on civvilian dress, such as a suit actually.

dileas

tess
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Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2006, 12:33:45 »
IN my opinion, I think they should leave things the way there are. We need no more de-Canadianising of the CF. Our customs and traditions should always remain tightly guarded and close to the heart.

Regards,

Wes
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Offline Babbling Brooks

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2006, 12:46:26 »
Quote
You can wear medals on civvilian dress, such as a suit actually.

dileas

tess

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  What I was getting at was that you can wear a wound stripe in situations where you don't want to wear a bank of decorations on your chest, or where wearing those decorations would be considered inappropriate (ie. situations where medals or even ribbons weren't being worn).
I believe most problems can be solved with weaponry of a high enough calibre.  Take me seriously at your own peril.

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2006, 12:49:38 »
If you are in a situation where you would be wearing a wound stripe, then you better well be wearing your medals.

I do not wear my wound stripe, as we adopt one that must be sewn on, which is not what I would like to do with my suit.  That is my reasoning.

I like the idea of an award such as a medal, hell if they went thorught the effort to award me something, then I might as well wear it.

dileas

tess
I know that I’m not perfect and that I don’t claim to be, so before you point your fingers make sure your hands are clean.

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2006, 12:55:28 »
I like my wound strip for the reason's I stated earlier.

And when I retire I'll pull it off my DEU's and frame it next to some of the metal they pulled out of me, with a little plaque that says "DUCK"
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 13:04:18 by HitorMiss »
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Offline Trinity

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Re: Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2006, 12:59:00 »

And when I retire I'll pull it of my DEU'sand frame it next to some of the metal they pulled out of me, with a little plaque that says "DUCK"

As opposed to the other UCK word you said when you got hit?!?!?!
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