Author Topic: Goose Bay: Promises & updates  (Read 67674 times)

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Offline EX_RCAC_011

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2006, 22:25:45 »
Yes sir
Your are right.I did go off half cocked and ready to lose it on my own computer I spent my own money on.No I don't work in an office I'm a tanker by heart a recce soldier by trade.

I do however hate the fact that this is the second or third time this frenchman has put his little comments in about Newfoundland.If it was vice versa this site would be pinging with arguments.I personally will not use a sweeping generalisation on a certain group of people in a derogatory way.I'm not a sensitive person,I like kidding around; but Geo decided to do it again.

I gave my reasons on why I thought we should have a regular force army base.I do understand that all the bases are not "a brigade".I do understand they all don't hold regular force army bases.So besides that point which I obviously fudged up on,there are my reasons.I had to stop myself from ARGUING on the internet.It's extremely stupid.Sort of like posting out a comment knowing someone isn't there to respond in person.I have a lot of Quebecois and Acadian friends,I don't go down town Montreal and shout out terms to insult.

Went off half cocked,sounded like an idiot on the topic for sure.
Sorry for wasting your bandwith.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2006, 22:31:08 by 099* »
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Offline KevinB

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2006, 22:40:30 »
Kevin S. Boland
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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2006, 23:01:57 »
While the Torngat mountains are impressive in their own right, they just don't compare to extent and vertical nature of the Rockies and the similarities with relevant portions of the Hindu Kush.

It's also easier to say, "I'm just going to drop into Kamloops for some stuff" than "I'm just going to drop into Kangiqsualujjuaq for some stuff."

G2G

Offline RangerRay

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2006, 23:22:02 »
Note how CSOR had to go to kamloops for mountain training.We have the torngat mountans range,largest mountains east of the Rocky's.

Kamloops is also a hot, semi-arid grassland, similar to a certain theater of operations we are now engaged in.  I've never been there, but I'm willing to bet that the Torngats are a fair bit cooler and soggier...

Edit to add:  I'm sorry, but in my view, "economic development" is not a valid reason to establish a military base.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2006, 01:22:44 »
is the second or third time this frenchman has put his little comments in about Newfoundland.

You sir, are an ***.

Drop by my office for a cup of shut the frig up, followed by a throat punch.

You see 099 me son, I was being rude - you, on the other hand, were being ignorant.


Mods - very unhappy with that language - and no, I don't mean mine. 
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Offline geo

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2006, 08:51:22 »
099
FYI, I have lived and worked on the Rock (10 Yrs) & worked with people from the Rock for some 35 years.  Do I live in Quebec now - Yes but I have lived many other places and done many things.....

I may be a "frenchman but you sir are an A$$.

Was I being Rude or Irreverent? - don't thik so & wasn't intended but the prospect of basing Infantry/Armd/Arty/Engr troops on the Rock for anything other than economic spinoffs just makes my head spin.

Your claims of the Rock & PEI being the only places where there are no Reg Army troops is out to lunch.....
Nfld, PEI AND N.S.
Sask
BC
Yukon, NWT AND Nunavut

Or have I forgotten something?

BTW - all the Newfoundlanders who I have had the pleasure to know have been able to laugh at themselves and at the world..... but I guess you missed those lessons.

Cheers!
Chimo!

Offline Infanteer

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2006, 10:19:03 »
Well, 099*, or should I say rcac_011, is on a 2-week sabbatical, so don't worry about him accepting that cup of joe.  Shall we get back to the topic at hand?

Cheers,
Infanteer
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2006, 10:50:01 »
Two major problems with placing a military base in Newfoundland off the top of my head...

- No rail transport, all goods and supplies would have to be transported by ship or air-craft.
- The only two places with military infrastructure currently in place are St. John's and Gander. There's no room for expansion at CFS St. John's (Though property could certainly be found in out lying areas). Gander would likely be preferable, but further from a port. Either way, neither are overly good options.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Garry

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2006, 11:18:19 »
At the risk of Hi-jacking the love fest.... (and btw: George- sorry I'm late, story of my life)

I spent almost 8 years in "the Goose", was lucky enough to hit it at the end of its heyday.

I'll start of by addressing a few queries from above:
Infrastructure:
-it had enough PMQ's to support over 1200 families. They were NICE. They've also bulldozed a bunch, not sure how many are left, but again the homes are there.
-Bldgs for the equipment, etc- the Goose housed  over 120 front line fighters every summer. 5 massive hangars, plus loads more smaller ones. Easily house a battalion worth of vehicles.
-Shopping sucked in the 90's, but has become much better.
-Loads of work if you want it.
Transport:
- Runway may be in bad shape for fighters, but is fine for transports (yes, there's a difference). The runways were built for B-52's (300 feet wide, 12,000' long) and the Goose is #8 on the list of space shuttle diversion's.
- The base was built in the 50's solely to asist in the transport of fighters and other aircraft from North America to Europe. It is closer to everything, and has great weather.
-The base has a deep water port, and connects to the Atlantic.
-There is a road into Goose now, and it connects to the coast as well.
Lifestyle:
-If you fish or hunt, you are in Heaven.
-If you don't, there's still plenty to do.
-If you cannot entertain yourself, and must be spoon fed happiness, you'll self destruct in Goose.
Trg area:
-5 minutes after you leave your home, you'll swear that you're the first person to ever walk that stretch of woods.
-Wonderful (WONDERFUL) in the winter
-Horrible (REALLY %%$#@#% HORRIBLE) in the summer. You simply cannot imagine the mosquito's and blackflys out on the land in the summer. If (and this is a big if) you know what you're doing, you can actually enjoy your time in the woods. If you don't, the bugs could kill you. Caribou lose over a pint of blood a day to blackflies. I stopped fishing once for a smoke, and counted over 50 flies on my sunglass lens- and another 50 crawling on the underside of my baseball hat. Cleaning a moose, I had to breathe through clenched teeth- couldn't use my nose, it was stopped full of bugs. After awhile you give up on DEET (it works, just too much $$) and got to fly nets, etc.

Kids and families:
-WONDERFUL spot for young kids, terrible for teens.

I had a ball in Goose, and would have stayed there if the base hadn't downsized my job out. Nearly stayed as a civvy, it was that great.

A Brigade there would work, except for one thing: the local businesses would eat the Gov money like a dog on steak.

Cheers-Garry

Offline geo

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2006, 11:25:02 »
Garry,

Considering the hue and cry when theymoved troops from Wpg to Shilo or London to Pet, I can imagine the reaction to moving a Bn to the Goose.

Troops might enjoy the area, spouses might not...
Chimo!

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2006, 12:38:27 »
Dipping toe in roiled waters just to offer this -

There was a comment that Goose Bay wouldn't be a good training match with our current operating environment.  Neither were any of our other locales either apparently.  Hence the move to Kamloops for CSOR.  Vernon might be a good option for a BC base but the locals all now own high price properties by the lake and apparently there is some sort of organization intimately tied to many of the restaurants.

Point is - we need to be able to operate in a variety of environments, including cold places, wet places and bug infested places.  The good news, apparently, is that Goose Bay meets all of those requirements.  It sounds like a heck of a training bargain.  ;D.
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Offline geo

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2006, 11:51:47 »
Kirkhill..... agree with you that the Goose does offer some good potential facilities but, uncertain if you would want to be sent there permanently...
Chimo!

Offline Gunner

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2006, 12:01:39 »
Geo, exactly.  Access to training areas is much different from living at an isolated posting.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline geo

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2006, 12:16:12 »
When they built up Wainright they did not move 1 Bde facilities.....
not necessary to move anyone to "da goose"

Matter of fact, I think it is good for our visibility within the country to move troops & train in areas outside of our regular training haunts.  It trains our movement people and it gives Joe public a peek at all that shiny equipment he's bought.

1 or 2 weeks ago, CSOR and their air wing was doing some training in and around Montreal. Helos dropping assault teams onto skyscrapers. picking up people from rooftops.  Some people were grumpy about it but - they're grumpy about most everything.
Chimo!

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: New Battalion at Goose Bay - Conservative brain wave
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2006, 16:10:07 »
Kirkhill..... agree with you that the Goose does offer some good potential facilities but, uncertain if you would want to be sent there permanently...

Actually here I agree as well. 

Something like the Arctic Warfare Training Centre being proposed (Company sized establishment) may be more realistic along with a continued Air Force Recce and Response capability.
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Online GAP

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Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2012, 13:01:31 »
Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
 By Lee Berthiaume, Postmedia News March 5, 2012
Article Link
 
OTTAWA — When he was opposition leader, Stephen Harper promised Newfoundland and Labrador that if his Conservatives formed a government, he would station a squadron of drones at one of the province's military bases for Arctic surveillance.

More than six years later, the province and community of Happy Valley-Goose Bay are pressing the Conservative government to pony up.

"The original commitment was made back in 2006 during the federal election," said Newfoundland Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Nick McGrath. "We've been monitoring it ever since then."

The airfield at Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay in Labrador was built originally by the American and Canadian militaries during the Second World War for anti-submarine aircraft.

CFB Goose Bay remained a Cold War staging base for the U.S. through to the 1980s, at which point the Americans left and NATO allies including Britain, Germany and Italy used it as a permanent training facility until the mid-2000s when those agreements ran out.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay said in an email that the Conservative government has invested $20 million in upgrading the airfield and $300 million in decontaminating sites around the base. It has also tried to attract other militaries to conduct training in the area.
More on link
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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2012, 20:15:26 »
And here's the letter promising it (6 page PDF)
http://bit.ly/wMhT2p
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2012, 04:16:28 »
I can see 5 Wing being used intermittently as a launch/recovery base for missions up north, but permanently?  I wouldn't even want to imagine the issues involved in sending a few hundred members and their dependants to Goose Bay for 3 years. 
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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2012, 10:04:09 »
I wouldn't even want to imagine the issues involved in sending a few hundred members and their dependants to Goose Bay for 3 years.
At one time the base was the largest airbase in the north-east, supporting the USAF and several NATO airforces, one of the last Pinetree Line radar stations...and protesters of fighter aircraft low-level flight training. It had a pretty significant CF population.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2012, 10:16:50 »
The base itself is still quite large, though largely unused...
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2012, 10:28:31 »
So how come SAR doesn't  base out of there?
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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2012, 10:34:33 »
The base itself is still quite large, though largely unused...
  :facepalm:
Yes, I assume that the runway has not shrunk and is still large enough to accomodate fighters and airliners. Perhaps I should have said "populous," or "the Goose Bay-Happy Valley Legion has lots of bar stools."


So how come SAR doesn't  base out of there?
Goose Bay's 444 Combat Support Squadron, with CH-146 Griffons, do SAR taskings

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2012, 10:44:48 »
According to Wikipedia, Happy Valley-Goose Bay has a population of 7572, or roughly a third of the size of the crowd at the Bell Centre when the Canadiens play a home game.

This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2012, 10:51:07 »
And I did use the past tense, with the implication, responding to Dimsum, that an in-flux of CF personnel/families could once again be supported.

Simply add Walmart, expand Timmies, bring in more bar waitresses.  ;D

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Re: Labrador asks Harper to pony up on promised drone squadron
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2012, 10:54:16 »
And I did use the past tense, with the implication, responding to Dimsum, that an in-flux of CF personnel/families could once again be supported.

Simply add Walmart and Target, etc, expand Timmies, bring in more bar waitresses (what's wrong with the ones that worked there 20 years ago?);D

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe