Author Topic: Think Outside the Hull - USNI  (Read 5659 times)

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Think Outside the Hull - USNI
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2017, 15:04:42 »
VLF antennas are very long. They trail behind their vehicles. I am unaware that the antennae orientation does much of anything, but I have no practical experience with that band of radio waves.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Think Outside the Hull - USNI
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2017, 16:39:11 »
If the Chinese found a way to use VLF signal, there is no way the Americans don't know about it. You just can't hide a VLF signal.

The US VLF Subnet used to operate with such power level that no one on earth was unaffected  ;D. The submarines needed to reel out at least 2 Km of antenna behind them to get any signal, and even then, the antenna had to be "floated" to within 100 feet of the surface, because below that, the signal was unreliable, and the speed of transmission was so slow that very short coded instructions were all that could reliably be passed on. If they are using sound - well, it doesn't travel that fast underwater and again, the amount of power that would have to be put behind the signal is incredible. There's a reason we mostly use tethered vehicles for underwater work.

If the Chinese have found a "real-time" way of relaying unmanned underwater vehicle mass data, they have discovered some new rules of physics that has eluded the rest of mankind so far.

I seriously have my doubts.
 

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Think Outside the Hull - USNI
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2017, 20:55:12 »
Thanks to both.  My education continues.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Think Outside the Hull - USNI
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2017, 10:20:24 »
With modern computing power, I suspect the "gliders" passively listen, if they hear a noise that fits a certain profile like a sub, they monitor it for a bit, pop to the surface and transmit their data, they likely also pop up now and again to reset their navigational fix, tell home their alive and accept minor updates.

One option is that you could have bottom laid torpedoes that sit quietly, then the underwater drone, patrols the area, if it gets a target, it might go to the surface, transmit information, if given the go ahead it sends out a signal to the nearest torpedo that wakes up and goes into a predetermined hunt pattern for the target.     

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Think Outside the Hull - USNI
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2017, 14:57:43 »
A more 3 Dimensional Navy will have a much greater airpower component. While this example uses USAF assets, there is no particular reason that any Navy can't develop or purchase air assets for similar roles. The large Japanese and Russian seaplanes are one way of going about this, but land based aircraft like the Poseidon or the Aurora can also fulfill many of these roles as well. In the future large UCAV's capable of staying aloft for many days might also fulfil some of these roles as well:

https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/B-1B-Rules-The-High-Seas-10-15-2011.asp

Quote
B-1B Rules The High Seas
by James Dunnigan
October 15, 2011

A U.S. Air Force B-1B has successfully used laser guided JDAM bombs against moving naval targets. These tests involved the B-1B using its Sniper targeting pod to put the laser beam on the target. The JDAMs homed on the laser light reflecting off the moving target ships. This is the latest of many air force heavy bombers that have served as maritime patrol and anti-ship aircraft. Back during World War II, thousands of B-17 and B-24 bombers (and many two engine bombers) served to patrol and control vast ocean areas. In the last few decades, the B-52 has been active in this area. For example, for the last few years, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has been using B-52s to check out suspicious merchant ships approaching North America, often when the ships are still about 2,000 kilometers from the coast. The B-52s use their targeting pods to take pictures of the ship, and transmit those back to DHS. A B-52 can do this while taking part in a training exercise. B-52s have a lot of jobs to do over the oceans.

This is largely because maritime reconnaissance has been revolutionized with the introduction, and combining, of lightweight search radars and targeting pods. With the targeting pod, you can stay high (6,500 meters/20,000 feet) and far away (over twenty kilometers) and still get a close look. Thus a B-52 with a targeting pod is an excellent naval reconnaissance aircraft, as is the more recent B-1B.

 B-52s and B-1Bs also practice dropping naval mines. This is something the air force has been doing since World War II, and with great success. The current air force naval mine is the Mk-62 "Quickstrike." This is basically a 227 kg (500 pound) bomb, with a sensor package attached to the rear. There are three different sensor packages, each providing a different set of sensors to detonate the mine. The Mk-62 is a "bottom mine," which is dropped in shallow water, and then detects a ship passing above using pressure (of the ship on the water), magnetism (of the metal in the ship's hull), or vibration. The sensor also comes with a computer, to enable the mine to follow certain instructions (like only detonate for ships that meet a certain criteria.)

The B-52 and B-1B drop the mines at an altitude of about 300 meters (1,000 feet), while moving at 500-600 kilometers an hour. The mines are usually dropped in known shipping lanes, especially those that serve as approaches to a major port. During World War II, air dropped mines proved devastating to Japanese shipping. Same thing when they were used against North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

The B-52s were first equipped with anti-ship missiles (for testing) in the 1970s, and were given Harpoon missiles as regular equipment in the 1980s. But smart bombs have proved to be nearly as useful, and a lot cheaper than Harpoon. The B-52 was, until recently, the cheapest heavy bomber to operate, and favored for maritime patrol. But the B-52 is getting very old and more expensive to maintain. So now the B-1B is the low cost operator and the first aircraft when the air force is called to help out with sea control.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.