Author Topic: Grievance - IA 4 month time period to respond has expired, now what  (Read 1120 times)

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Offline jitterbug

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Submitted a grievance, IA confirmed received, 4+ months later IA has not responded to grievance.  Assisting officer has attempted contact multiple times.  What should be done now?

Offline ballz

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If I were the AO, I would call up the correspondent you have had at the IA (the DG's usually have staff dealing with this stuff). I'd remind them they are overdue and that their obligations require them to provide an updated timeline, and if it's not satisfactory to you, you can have your grievance forwarded to the Final Authority, essentially skipping the IA because they took too long.

Have you received disclosure from the Grievance Analyst yet?
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Offline jitterbug

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If I were the AO, I would call up the correspondent you have had at the IA (the DG's usually have staff dealing with this stuff). I'd remind them they are overdue and that their obligations require them to provide an updated timeline, and if it's not satisfactory to you, you can have your grievance forwarded to the Final Authority, essentially skipping the IA because they took too long.

Have you received disclosure from the Grievance Analyst yet?

The correspondent at the IA (also the grievance analyst) has not responded back every time either of us have tried to contact him (both phone and email).  Disclosure has not been received either.  The last thing I got was an email from the correspondent stating disclosure would be sent.  That was well over 4 months ago.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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DAOD 2017-1, Military Grievance Process

Four-Month Time Limit

9.8 In accordance with QR&O paragraph 7.15(2), an IA must consider and determine a grievance within four months. However, this may not always be possible due to the nature of the grievance or the exigencies of the service. As a result, an IA who is unable to comply with this obligation must notify the grievor in writing that:

a.the IA will not be able to consider and determine their grievance within the four-month time limit set out in QR&O paragraph 7.15(2), and provide an estimate of the date by which the IA might do so; and

b.the grievor may submit to the IA, for forwarding to the FA, a request to have the FA consider and determine the grievance without determination by the IA.

9.9 In any event, if the IA has not considered and determined the grievance within the four-month time limit, the grievor may:

a.choose to wait for the IA to consider and determine the grievance; or

b.request that the IA refer the grievance to the FA, who will then consider and determine the grievance.


*small point, but in the Grievance system, you have an AM (Assisting Member) not an AO (Assisting Officer).  They are not really the same and perform different functions.

If your AM is getting no reply back, also bear in mind...

Limitations on the Role of an Assisting Member

7.5 An assisting member assists a grievor but is not:
a.the personal representative of the grievor;

If you did decide to exercise your right to have the grievance forwarded to the FA, remember that there is no time limit for the FA to determine and grant/deny redress.

You might consider sending the Griev Analyst an email requesting an update IAW 9.8(a) of the DAOD.  They are not supposed to just give you the emergency test broadcast signal (I know it happens, believe me). 

However, the problem is there is no (real) accountability and repercussions in the CAFGS against IAs and GAs who do not perform the duties they are assigned. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 13:25:57 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Pusser

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Perhaps your CO should be engaged to contact the Analyst's boss to get an answer.  Your CO can also contact DGCFGA who can swing a bigger hammer.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline jitterbug

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Perhaps your CO should be engaged to contact the Analyst's boss to get an answer.  Your CO can also contact DGCFGA who can swing a bigger hammer.

Good point.  I'm going to the CO's office tomorrow to tell him how to do his job... ;D

Offline jitterbug

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Finally got a response back from IA.  They are requesting 3-5 weeks for a disclosure.  Also received a call from the FA and they stated that 3-5 was reasonable and in their opinion I should take it.  I'm going to give the IA the 3-5 weeks extension.  Thanks for the advice.

Offline ballz

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Finally got a response back from IA.  They are requesting 3-5 weeks for a disclosure.  Also received a call from the FA and they stated that 3-5 was reasonable and in their opinion I should take it.  I'm going to give the IA the 3-5 weeks extension.  Thanks for the advice.

I think you should push them for "how long until I get a decision from the IA." The fact that it took 4 months to even get a response, and then another "3-5 weeks" to get disclosure.... and then you'll want to respond to that disclosure... at which point the IA may want another abysmal amount of time to render a decision... you could easily be looking at another 5 months or more to get the actual decision.

Once again our standard in execution is quite embarrassing.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline Tcm621

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.. The modern Canadian military would be 2 weeks late for D-day. We can't seem to do anything in a reasonable amount of time any more.

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Offline Tcm621

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Does anyone know the time frame a CO has to acknowledge receipt of a grievance/notice of intent? I can't find anything but a statement that the CO is supposed to assign ab assisting member "without delay".

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Offline ballz

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From DAOD 2017-1

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-2000/2017-1.page#dco

Quote
Duties on Receipt of a Grievance

6.2 Upon receipt of a grievance, and in accordance with QR&O article 7.09, Commanding Officer’s Duties on Receipt of Grievance, the CO must:

ensure the grievance complies with the conditions set out in QR&O article 7.08;
register it in the NGR;
acknowledge its receipt in writing to the grievor and provide the grievor with the NGR number; and
assign an assisting member in accordance with QR&O article 7.07, Duty to Assign Officer or Non-Commissioned Member to Assist.
Examination of a Grievance to Identify the Appropriate IA

6.3 In accordance with QR&O subparagraph 7.14(1)(a), Officers Who May Act as Initial Authority in Respect of Grievance, a CO may act as the IA if the CO can grant the redress sought by the grievor. However, if the grievance relates to the decision, act or omission of the CO or if the CO cannot grant the redress sought by the grievor, the CO cannot act as the IA. In these circumstances, the CO must ensure that the grievance is referred to the next superior officer who is responsible for dealing with the matter that is the subject of the grievance (see section 8 of this DAOD).

6.4 If a CO has received a grievance and cannot act as the IA, the CO must either:

consult with the CFGA to identify the appropriate IA and then forward the grievance file to that IA; or
forward the grievance file to the CFGA for review by the CFGA of the content of the grievance in any case in which the identification of the appropriate IA is problematic.
6.5 In either case under paragraph 6.4 of this DAOD, the CO must:
forward the grievance file within 10 days of receipt of the grievance;
include with the grievance file a cover letter setting out:
their comments concerning the merits of the grievance;
an explanation of any delay in forwarding the grievance; and
any additional relevant information; and
provide the grievor with a copy of that letter and any additional information forwarded with the grievance file.

While it doesn't explicitly say "the CO must acknowledge receipt of the grievance from the member within 10 days" it essentially gives him 10 days from the time of receipt to do the first step which includes providing the grievor with a copy.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Does anyone know the time frame a CO has to acknowledge receipt of a grievance/notice of intent?

Short question;  which was submitted - the NOI or a grievance?  IAW the black and white of the policy, a CAF member who submits a NOI is not formally a 'grievor' yet.  There is a requirement in the policy for the CO to sign a mbr's NOI but nothing about acknowledging receipt to the mbr.  Common sense would be for the CofC to reach out to the mbr, as part of informal resolution (the overall goal of a NOI).
-----------
4. Informal Complaint Resolution

Early Complaint Resolution

4.1 A grievance should normally not be the first step in remedying a complaint. The CDS Guidance to Commanding Officers, Chapter 17, Conflict Management, provides that every effort is to be made to resolve issues early, locally and informally, before they escalate to higher and more formal levels.

Submitting a Notice of Intent (NOI) to Grieve

4.2 Prior to submitting a grievance, a CAF member should submit a NOI to grieve to the chain of command to trigger resolution at the lowest possible level. The NOI template is found on the CFGA intranet site. A NOI:
a.does not preclude a CAF member from communicating with their commanding officer (CO) prior to submitting a grievance (see QR&O article 19.12, Communication with the Commanding Officer);
b.should be initiated as soon as possible after the decision, act or omission in question;
c.engages the chain of command to assist a CAF member in identifying the best complaint mechanism to potentially resolve the issue before it becomes a grievance; and
d.is most effective when the CO has the authority to resolve the problem.

Note – A NOI to grieve does not extend the time limit under QR&O paragraph 7.06(1), Time Limit to Submit Grievance, within which a grievance must be submitted by a CAF member.

4.3 A NOI to grieve must be:
a.submitted by the CAF member to their supervisor; and
b.signed by the CO of the CAF member.


5.1 A grievor is:
a.a CAF member who: i.is in the Regular Force or any sub-component of the Reserve Force (the Primary Reserve, Supplementary Reserve, Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service or Canadian Rangers);
ii.has been aggrieved by a decision, act or omission in the administration of the affairs of the CAF; and
iii.has submitted to their CO a written and signed grievance seeking redress; or
b.a former CAF member who submitted a grievance before their release (see section 16 of this DAOD
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Offline Tcm621

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Short question;  which was submitted - the NOI or a grievance?  IAW the black and white of the policy, a CAF member who submits a NOI is not formally a 'grievor' yet.  There is a requirement in the policy for the CO to sign a mbr's NOI but nothing about acknowledging receipt to the mbr.  Common sense would be for the CofC to reach out to the mbr, as part of informal resolution (the overall goal of a NOI).
-----------
4. Informal Complaint Resolution

Early Complaint Resolution

4.1 A grievance should normally not be the first step in remedying a complaint. The CDS Guidance to Commanding Officers, Chapter 17, Conflict Management, provides that every effort is to be made to resolve issues early, locally and informally, before they escalate to higher and more formal levels.

Submitting a Notice of Intent (NOI) to Grieve

4.2 Prior to submitting a grievance, a CAF member should submit a NOI to grieve to the chain of command to trigger resolution at the lowest possible level. The NOI template is found on the CFGA intranet site. A NOI:
a.does not preclude a CAF member from communicating with their commanding officer (CO) prior to submitting a grievance (see QR&O article 19.12, Communication with the Commanding Officer);
b.should be initiated as soon as possible after the decision, act or omission in question;
c.engages the chain of command to assist a CAF member in identifying the best complaint mechanism to potentially resolve the issue before it becomes a grievance; and
d.is most effective when the CO has the authority to resolve the problem.

Note – A NOI to grieve does not extend the time limit under QR&O paragraph 7.06(1), Time Limit to Submit Grievance, within which a grievance must be submitted by a CAF member.

4.3 A NOI to grieve must be:
a.submitted by the CAF member to their supervisor; and
b.signed by the CO of the CAF member.


5.1 A grievor is:
a.a CAF member who: i.is in the Regular Force or any sub-component of the Reserve Force (the Primary Reserve, Supplementary Reserve, Cadet Organizations Administration and Training Service or Canadian Rangers);
ii.has been aggrieved by a decision, act or omission in the administration of the affairs of the CAF; and
iii.has submitted to their CO a written and signed grievance seeking redress; or
b.a former CAF member who submitted a grievance before their release (see section 16 of this DAOD
I was looking for an answer to both. I feel like there has to be some formal recognition but there doesn't seem to be. Step 1 is a "verbal" complaint, step 2 is a Notice of Intent and step 3 is submitting the grievance. At no point does the CO have to formally acknowledge anything (as far as I can find) yet the grievor has 3 months to decide whether to submit the formal grievance.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Well, they do have to sign the Mbr's NOI if submitted IAW Sect 4(3)(b) of the DAOD and/or WRT to a grievance, they have to acknowledge receipt of grievance to the griever IAW Sect 6.2 (c). 

From there, the next question is *can the CO act as the IA*?  That will determine the next actions required of the CO.

Examination of a Grievance to Identify the Appropriate IA

6.3 In accordance with QR&O subparagraph 7.14(1)(a), Officers Who May Act as Initial Authority in Respect of Grievance, a CO may act as the IA if the CO can grant the redress sought by the grievor. However, if the grievance relates to the decision, act or omission of the CO or if the CO cannot grant the redress sought by the grievor, the CO cannot act as the IA. In these circumstances, the CO must ensure that the grievance is referred to the next superior officer who is responsible for dealing with the matter that is the subject of the grievance (see section 8 of this DAOD).

Sects 6.4 and 6.5 amplify what else has to happen, as Ballz posted earlier, this is the first instance in the DAOD where a set timeline is detailed (10 days from receipt of grievance to forward it on to the CFGA or, if known, the IA).

Sect 9 of the DAOD has all the info that should apply if the CO can act as the IA, in which case they have 4 months to consider the grievance.  They are also required to acknowledge receipt of the grievance as an IA IAW Sect 9.3(a) of the DAOD.

If the (potential) grievor has yet to formally submit a grievance in writing, signed etc they aren't, by policy definition, a grievor at this point, even if they have submitted a NOI. That's why I was wondering.  From the DAOD, Sect 4.

Note – A NOI to grieve does not extend the time limit under QR&O paragraph 7.06(1), Time Limit to Submit Grievance, within which a grievance must be submitted by a CAF member.

Lastly, there is no formal Step 1 thru Step 3 process required.  The mbr can submit a grievance without communicating orally with their CO, or submitting a NOI.  However, the goal is always *lowest level possible* for resolution, and once a formal grievance is submitted, it has to be registered, tracked etc.  If speaking with the CO or communicating what issues the mbr has with a decision/act/omission to their CO via a NOI triggers a resolution process that results in a grievance NOT being submitted and the situation resolved favourable in the eyes of the mbr and CAF, that is the system working at its best at the lowest level. 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:19:46 by Eye In The Sky »
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