Author Topic: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.  (Read 4225 times)

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Offline IN ARDUA NITOR

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 12:53:44 »
Have you ever been to the Arctic, its no picnic I can assure you. We hand out a medal for 30 days on Op Caribbe and that's with ports and sun. I honestly don't see the problem.

YMMV - in the Eastern Pacific it only comes with sun, no ports for the last 3 rotos (not anything longer than 18 hours, anyhow)

I am not sure how I feel about a gong for a Nanook or Limpid deployment of 2 months - i completely get the CFS Alert piece... 6 months is a very long time in austere conditions.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2017, 13:03:09 »
By ease of administration I'm referring more to the timelessness of the award being issued. Having clerks photocopy logbook entries and creating excel spreadsheets for each member just to track days seems like a waste of effort. Then there's the nightmare of "trading in" GSMs for GCSs if the 30 day cumulative tally is met in later rotations.  (i.e. Hornet driver gets 15 days over Iraq during a 56-day roto, gets the GSM, and then returns for another 56-day roto and gets another 15 days over Iraq.)

If it was 180 days between those ROTOs, the mbr would keep the GSM and get the GCS.

Quote
I do like the GCS/GSM approach. I just think it needs some refinement wrt counting of days, especially when actually engaging an armed enemy. 

As for the GCS/GSM ribbons, it's getting messy. Iraq and Syria fall within the definition of Southwest Asia, so why not just issue the GCS/GSM-SWA? EXP is meant for small contributions to short missions. Op IMPACT is well beyond that now. Probably just easier to rename the ribbon at this point.

Actually, I think the mistake was actually in the naming of the GCS-Expedition from the get go.  The qualifying service was always:

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is military service within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq from 20 January 2003 onwards provided the service has not been recognized by another service medal.

Are you sure you're not thinking of the SSM Expedition

The Special Service Medal (SSM) was created to recognize members of the Canadian Forces who are taking part in activities and operations under exceptional circumstances.

EXPEDITION

(Authorized by PC 2014-606, 21 May 2014)

An aggregate of 180 days of honourable service performed outside Canada beginning July 1, 2007, while deployed to participate in or provide direct support on a full-time basis to approved operations, provided the said service is not counted towards any other Canadian or foreign service medal. In this context, “deployed” means sent outside of Canada temporarily, without family and effects, for the specific purpose of serving in or supporting approved operations; postings to permanent positions outside of Canada are excluded from eligibility.


I guess no one thought the name GCS- XPEDITION would create head scratching later on.  Or they never thought we'd do an OP in Iraq the scope of IMPACT; the last line in the Historical notes states:

As of 1 June 2012, 9 awards had been made.

Ref the earlier posts about the service medal for up north, there is an ALERT bar for the SSM as well.

2. ALERT

(Authorized by PC 1995-2003)

An aggregate of 180 days of honourable service on the posted strength of Canadian Forces Station (CFS) Alert, or of honourable service with a military force operationally deployed to or at CFS Alert, since it began its operation on 01 September 1958 and still continuing. Units deployed at CFS Alert include such detachments as aircrew flying into the station for re-supply missions.


If you're up north and not on the posted strength of the CFS though...


« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 13:10:10 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2017, 13:04:26 »
YMMV - in the Eastern Pacific it only comes with sun, no ports for the last 3 rotos (not anything longer than 18 hours, anyhow)

I am not sure how I feel about a gong for a Nanook or Limpid deployment of 2 months - i completely get the CFS Alert piece... 6 months is a very long time in austere conditions.


I don't believe it for 30 days, its for 180 days accumulated I believe, Many people have gone on multiple deployments and some up to 3 months. When the AOPS start to deploy, they most likely will be up there for 4 months or more.
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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2017, 13:21:25 »

I don't believe it for 30 days, its for 180 days accumulated I believe, Many people have gone on multiple deployments and some up to 3 months. When the AOPS start to deploy, they most likely will be up there for 4 months or more.

Any RUMINT yet on whether it's AOPS crews will deploy for the whole season of if they're going to crew-swap like the CCG does? The first option is fairly austere, the second option much less so.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2017, 13:33:39 »
Any RUMINT yet on whether it's AOPS crews will deploy for the whole season of if they're going to crew-swap like the CCG does? The first option is fairly austere, the second option much less so.

Hard to say, we trialed a RIF a few years ago with several MCDV's up north and it did work. I guess it will be all about personnel availability. With all the MCDV crew members being offered reg positions at rank, a lot of these will be ear marked to the AOPS. Harry DeWolf wont be selecting crews until the late 2018. If I was a betting man, it will be a straight deployment with no switching out.
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Offline eliminator

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2017, 18:01:25 »
As of 1 June 2012, 9 awards had been made.

They really need to update that.

According to the 2015 Honours and Recognition pub, 208 GCS-EXPs were issued in 2015 alone. In 2014, 70 were issued.

The 2016 edition of this pub should be out shortly.

Offline eliminator

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2017, 18:30:14 »
If it was 180 days between those ROTOs, the mbr would keep the GSM and get the GCS.

Days in a given 180 period can only apply towards one medal.

Here's an over-simplistic example: Member deploys to Iraq on an HLTA-backfill for 29 days, just missing out on the GCS-EXP (no medal for that matter). One year later, the member deploys to Kuwait for a 180 day deployment (GSM-EXP).

During that tour, the member manages to get on a CP140 ride over the badlands bringing the total "Iraq days" up to 29+1=30=GCS.

However, the member can't use days from the same deployment towards two different awards. Member has to choose either GCS or GSM. 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 21:14:22 by eliminator »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2017, 20:49:55 »
Ya, we're saying the same thing but differently I think.   :nod: 

Only, its not a choice, its precedence based.  In the example above, the 180 days deployment 1 year later, which brought the mbr to 30 flights in the JOA, would mean the mbr would only still get the GCS.  This is the way it was explained/briefed to us at least. 

Morale of the story?  Never leave theatre with 29 days towards the GSM or 29 missions.   :D  (although I know of one guy who left R0 with 29 missions and didn't go back)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 21:16:35 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2017, 02:02:48 »
Have you ever been to the Arctic, its no picnic I can assure you. We hand out a medal for 30 days on Op Caribbe and that's with ports and sun. I honestly don't see the problem.

But yet with all the NANOOKs and NUNAVILUTs having been run in the last 10 years, I haven't heard anything on the Army-side about guys wanting a medal for it.

If you're patrolling the Arctic, you're patrolling Canadian territory. The medal you get to signify that is your CD, or your SSI if you're sailing. Yep, the Arctic is harsh. That's why you get Sea Duty or Land Duty allowance.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2017, 09:28:15 »
But yet with all the NANOOKs and NUNAVILUTs having been run in the last 10 years, I haven't heard anything on the Army-side about guys wanting a medal for it.

If you're patrolling the Arctic, you're patrolling Canadian territory. The medal you get to signify that is your CD, or your SSI if you're sailing. Yep, the Arctic is harsh. That's why you get Sea Duty or Land Duty allowance.

Yet Alert gets a SSM and its Canadian territory correct? Sea duty allowance is for being on ship, not the area that it operates in. Regardless I hope this goes through.
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Online Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2017, 11:54:43 »
Morale of the story?  Never leave theatre with 29 days towards the GSM or 29 missions.   :D  (although I know of one guy who left R0 with 29 missions and didn't go back)

I know this is a but of a stretch, but I do recall someone mentioning sorties that start on one day but end on another count as two.  I personally think that it is BS, but it would not surprise me.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2017, 13:01:48 »
I know this is a but of a stretch, but I do recall someone mentioning sorties that start on one day but end on another count as two.  I personally think that it is BS, but it would not surprise me.

Well...I can confirm that 1 mission over 2 Z-days can be counted as 2 sorties.   I personally didn't do that, my log book reflects "1 mission = 1 day towards".  It's not a factor now with the way the ATOs go, but you remember the rolling block times gig in the first part of the op, there was an opportunity for people to log on mission as 2 flights towards their throwing star.  I don't know of a single person who did, but it wasn't common knowledge then AFAIK, either.  There is a whole SOP for this *stuff* in theatre now.  Every month I've spent at Happy Land now, there's an additional entry on my logbook that says "X days credit towards the GCS-Exp" or something along that line, signed by the DetCO or Dep DetCO.  FWIW, the community realized the whole gong thing was FUBAR and steps were being taken to review everyone who'd rotated thru since R0-C0 and ensure their stuff was correct and appropriate honours were submitted. 
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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2017, 13:19:52 »
As much as I like the various GCSs and GSMs, I really wish we would have just gone with an OSM route for all expeditionary missions. Give a distinct ribbon, and if in "the box" where hostilities are taking place add a bar (for 1 days service). Like what we did with the Gulf and Kuwait Medal and Bar.

To show multiple deployment rotations/excess days, go the route of an Accumulated Campaign Service Medal (like the UK has). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accumulated_Campaign_Service_Medal




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Re: MEDALS - Updated prerequisites.
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2017, 13:25:31 »
Yet Alert gets a SSM and its Canadian territory correct? Sea duty allowance is for being on ship, not the area that it operates in. Regardless I hope this goes through.

I was at a CFCWO Town Hall a couple of years back and he mentioned that DH&R was looking into suitable means to recognize service on domestic operations. Whether that would take the form of a medal, or badge, or otherwise no decision has been made yet.