Author Topic: Lifting a Restricted Posting  (Read 3975 times)

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Online Lumber

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Lifting a Restricted Posting
« on: October 17, 2016, 15:35:36 »
I know the definition:
A restricted posting involves a move to a place of duty to which the Department considers it desirable, or in the public interest, to restrict the move of dependants or Household Goods and Effects or both, until suitable accommodation becomes available. Once you have secured suitable accommodations, then the "restriction" can be lifted and the relocation status changes to "Authorized".

I have a member working for me who is on a prohibited posting (he's on the BTL). He has just received a restricted posting message to Moose Jaw. He has two months until his COS date, and his move is considered a non-CFIRP move. He's married, two kids, owns a house.

1. Accommodations are available right now. He's been looking at the market at his new place for the past few months because he knew this posting was coming, so I don't understand why he would need to wait for them to become available.

2. He's going on course basically as soon as he gets there. How is he suppose to have time to move his DHG&E?

3. What the heck is a non-CFIRP move?

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Offline DAA

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 16:05:16 »
I know the definition:
A restricted posting involves a move to a place of duty to which the Department considers it desirable, or in the public interest, to restrict the move of dependants or Household Goods and Effects or both, until suitable accommodation becomes available. Once you have secured suitable accommodations, then the "restriction" can be lifted and the relocation status changes to "Authorized".
I have a member working for me who is on a prohibited posting (he's on the BTL). He has just received a restricted posting message to Moose Jaw. He has two months until his COS date, and his move is considered a non-CFIRP move. He's married, two kids, owns a house.
1. Accommodations are available right now. He's been looking at the market at his new place for the past few months because he knew this posting was coming, so I don't understand why he would need to wait for them to become available.
2. He's going on course basically as soon as he gets there. How is he suppose to have time to move his DHG&E?
3. What the heck is a non-CFIRP move?

1 - Permanent accommodations must be "secured" prior to the restriction being lifted and the move being "Authorized"
2 - That is between the individual and the new unit
3 - A non-CFIRP move, is a DND Funded relocation which is undertaken, managed and reimbursed by the local Orderly Room and not by Brookfield Relocation services.  For the most part, the benefits are identical.
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Online Lumber

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 16:12:13 »
1 - Permanent accommodations must be "secured" prior to the restriction being lifted and the move being "Authorized"
2 - That is between the individual and the new unit
3 - A non-CFIRP move, is a DND Funded relocation which is undertaken, managed and reimbursed by the local Orderly Room and not by Brookfield Relocation services.  For the most part, the benefits are identical.

It's that last part that has us mind-boggled (and his actual OR is not help AT ALL). Where are the rules and regulations/list of benefits for such a move? Just what benefits are not identical? Since he has time before his COS date, can he book an HHT and see about getting his posting status lifted before he actually travels to Moose Jaw? If he went ahead and, on his own dime, secured accommodations right now, could the CO deny his request to lift his restricted status and approve the movement of his DHG&E now, not after he's started working there?
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Online captloadie

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 16:20:36 »
Have you considered calling the Wing Orderly Room in Moosejaw and asking them some of these questions? What you are describing is a common occurrence with pilots postings to Moosejaw. They will likely have all the answers for you, and maybe an aide-memoirs to help.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 22:12:50 »
or look in CBI 208 - relocation.

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Offline Pusser

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 11:36:49 »
It's that last part that has us mind-boggled (and his actual OR is not help AT ALL). Where are the rules and regulations/list of benefits for such a move? Just what benefits are not identical? Since he has time before his COS date, can he book an HHT and see about getting his posting status lifted before he actually travels to Moose Jaw? If he went ahead and, on his own dime, secured accommodations right now, could the CO deny his request to lift his restricted status and approve the movement of his DHG&E now, not after he's started working there?

He should NOT do anything on his own dime.  There is no need to.  He can request an HHT, go to Moose Jaw and find a place and once that has been completed, the restriction will be lifted and his DHG&E can all be moved a public expense.

The biggest difference between an IRP move and an OR move is who completes the paperwork.  There are some minor differences in benefits, but they're not significant.  Calling the OR in Moose Jaw is a good idea, but his local OR also has to get engaged as they have to start the process. 
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline ballz

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 12:20:18 »
All postings are restricted until suitable accommodations are found. Finding suitable accommodations is what lifts the restriction so that you can move your HG&E.

The biggest difference for benefits will be a posting allowance. If the member hasnt attained career status, the member is not entitled to a posting allowance. Its not a minor chunk of change. When I get back into the office I can send something thag will help, but it is all in CBI 208 - relocation as stated above.
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Online Lumber

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 13:30:41 »
He should NOT do anything on his own dime.  There is no need to.  He can request an HHT, go to Moose Jaw and find a place and once that has been completed, the restriction will be lifted and his DHG&E can all be moved a public expense.

The biggest difference between an IRP move and an OR move is who completes the paperwork.  There are some minor differences in benefits, but they're not significant.  Calling the OR in Moose Jaw is a good idea, but his local OR also has to get engaged as they have to start the process.

His local OR told him he'd have to fly (drive if he wants to take annual) to Moose Jaw, live in shacks, attend course (which is 8-9 months long), and only then when he has some free time would he have an opportunity to seek out permanent accommodations and have his family moved out there with him.

He's trying to find contact info for the OR in Moose Jaw.

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2016, 13:49:24 »
DWAN only link for Wing Admin in Moose Jaw:  http://moosejaw.mil.ca/content/units/wing-admin/wing-admin.asp

This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 13:54:55 »
DWAN only link for Wing Admin in Moose Jaw:  http://moosejaw.mil.ca/content/units/wing-admin/wing-admin.asp

I would keep this account for no other reason than this.  :salute:
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 13:59:48 »
How I found the page:

1. Go to the DWAN "Organizations" page
2. Select RCAF
3. Select "Wings"
4. Select "Moose Jaw"
5. Select "Units", look at the options, and see what was nested under "Chief of Staff" - Aha!  Wing Admin!


Similar approaches work for the RCN, or most of NDHQ.  The Army and ACIMS, on the other hand, seem determined to keep information from you to the best of their ability.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline DAA

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 14:34:27 »
It's that last part that has us mind-boggled (and his actual OR is not help AT ALL). Where are the rules and regulations/list of benefits for such a move? Just what benefits are not identical? Since he has time before his COS date, can he book an HHT and see about getting his posting status lifted before he actually travels to Moose Jaw? If he went ahead and, on his own dime, secured accommodations right now, could the CO deny his request to lift his restricted status and approve the movement of his DHG&E now, not after he's started working there?

It's a combination of CBI 208 and the CFIRP Manual and benefits are pretty much identical.  At the end of the day the only major difference, is that the movement is "managed" and reimbursed by the local Orderly Room Staff and NOT Brookfield Relocation Services.

The problem you will or may encounter, is the lack of OR Staff who have actual "old school" R&D experience.

His local OR told him he'd have to fly (drive if he wants to take annual) to Moose Jaw, live in shacks, attend course (which is 8-9 months long), and only then when he has some free time would he have an opportunity to seek out permanent accommodations and have his family moved out there with him.

If the posting is in fact "Restricted", then he can choose whatever method of travel he sees fit and the OR has little if any say.  Not to mention, he'd be entitled to Relocation Leave, as well as Travel Time.

Given that the posting is to Moose Jaw, it's not like they haven't experienced these before, so they would probably be your best source for information.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 15:08:22 »
The problem you will or may encounter, is the lack of OR Staff who have actual "old school" R&D experience.

and hopefully that will eventually go away with the new trades. 

The current unit has the easy part - raise the claim, send him on his HHT, arrange for his F&E move.  The other end has to complete the claim.

Amazing that none of the clerks even bothered to look it up and gave false responses while the members of this site quickly passed on valid information.  No wonder when I can't find it through official channels I search here (or sometimes even before trying the official channels myself).
"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Online Lumber

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 15:23:45 »
How I found the page:

1. Go to the DWAN "Organizations" page
2. Select RCAF
3. Select "Wings"
4. Select "Moose Jaw"
5. Select "Units", look at the options, and see what was nested under "Chief of Staff" - Aha!  Wing Admin!

Yea yea yea  [:p; I'm sure if I tried looking for it I would have found it easily. My original post wasn't about contact info it was about the whole process, and I wasn't the one who was going to actually go looking for contact info for him. I still appreciated you doing my/his work for me/him  ;D.


Similar approaches work for the RCN, or most of NDHQ.  The Army and ACIMS, on the other hand, seem determined to keep information from you to the best of their ability.

I've actually had my Chief Clerk come ask me if anything was wrong because I was swearing so much trying to find references and contact information on ACIMS.

I could rant all day about ACIMS...
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline DAA

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2016, 16:17:14 »
and hopefully that will eventually go away with the new trades

The current unit has the easy part - raise the claim, send him on his HHT, arrange for his F&E move.  The other end has to complete the claim.

Amazing that none of the clerks even bothered to look it up and gave false responses while the members of this site quickly passed on valid information.  No wonder when I can't find it through official channels I search here (or sometimes even before trying the official channels myself).

The split in the RMS occupation definitely won't address this issue as R&D is no longer taught at any level.  Older RMS Clks who have the "experience" need to recognize it is an acquired skill that needs to be passed along to the younger members.  Anytime one of these claims came up in the Base OR that I supervised, I ensured that there were at least two people involved in the processing.  One who "knew" what they were doing and the other who was learning the process.     :)
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 09:43:58 »
All postings are restricted until suitable accommodations are found. Finding suitable accommodations is what lifts the restriction so that you can move your HG&E.

The biggest difference for benefits will be a posting allowance. If the member hasnt attained career status, the member is not entitled to a posting allowance. Its not a minor chunk of change. When I get back into the office I can send something thag will help, but it is all in CBI 208 - relocation as stated above.

My point concerning both types of move was that the regulations are virtually identical.  Remember that the difference between a CFIRP move and an OR move is really only a matter of who completes the paperwork.  Benefit entitlements are very similar.  Yes, a Posting Allowance is a fair chunk of change, but entitlement to one is based solely on career status.  Just because it's a CFIRP move does not mean a member gets a posting allowance nor does an OR move  negate entitlement to one (although it is unlikely that anyone getting an OR move has attained career status yet).
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Pusser

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 09:52:49 »
His local OR told him he'd have to fly (drive if he wants to take annual) to Moose Jaw, live in shacks, attend course (which is 8-9 months long), and only then when he has some free time would he have an opportunity to seek out permanent accommodations and have his family moved out there with him.

That's a complete BS answer!  Perhaps it's time the chain of command got involved.  The OC of that OR needs to get a grip on his/her staff.  As someone else has already said, all postings are generally restricted to start.  The HHT (which everyone is entitled to) is the first step in getting that lifted.  After that, the member is still entitled to a proper move, which includes travel time, relocation leave, shipment of HG&E, etc.

NB:  Even if the member chooses not to take an HHT (which is still his choice), he is entitled to take time after he arrives at the new location to look for a place to live (and live in barracks or hotel while doing so).  However, he would have to arrive sufficiently in advance of his course starts in order to do this beforehand.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 10:18:04 »
That's a complete BS answer!  Perhaps it's time the chain of command got involved.  The OC of that OR needs to get a grip on his/her staff.  As someone else has already said, all postings are generally restricted to start.  The HHT (which everyone is entitled to) is the first step in getting that lifted.  After that, the member is still entitled to a proper move, which includes travel time, relocation leave, shipment of HG&E, etc.

NB:  Even if the member chooses not to take an HHT (which is still his choice), he is entitled to take time after he arrives at the new location to look for a place to live (and live in barracks or hotel while doing so).  However, he would have to arrive sufficiently in advance of his course starts in order to do this beforehand.

His course start date and COS date are the same date, and he was given two months notice.

In fact, Moose Jaw advised him weeks ago that he would be getting no more than "2 months notice" because "that's the way they do things".

As prudence would dictate, he therefore tried to get the ball rolling early, but was told again and again "we can't do anything until your receive a posting message".

Now that he has his posting message, he's even more confused and getting little to no help from his OR. I can't do anything at my end because he doesn't belong to us.
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2016, 11:24:55 »
His course start date and COS date are the same date, and he was given two months notice.

In fact, Moose Jaw advised him weeks ago that he would be getting no more than "2 months notice" because "that's the way they do things".

As prudence would dictate, he therefore tried to get the ball rolling early, but was told again and again "we can't do anything until your receive a posting message".

Now that he has his posting message, he's even more confused and getting little to no help from his OR. I can't do anything at my end because he doesn't belong to us.

It's tight, but it's still feasible to squeeze in an HHT and since he has a posting message, he can do that.  There is also still time to drive (it's duty travel, not leave).
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline elsalado

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 09:10:12 »
I also have a question related to this. I got a job offer for air combat systems officer and I start BMOQ in January. After BMOQ I will have to go to OJT before my actual ACSO course as there is always a long wait for this. I spoke to a guy who did the ACSO course (which is in Winnipeg) and he said that 90% of ACSOs do their OJT in Winnipeg before the ACSO course. Thus, I could be in Winnipeg for 2 years with my OJT and ACSO training combined.

He told me that because I will be in Winnipeg for such a long time, the CAF will cover the transport costs for moving my furniture to Winnipeg (from Toronto) and that I will be allowed to live off base in my own accomodations. However, my file manager said that I will be living in shacks and will not be able to take my furniture. So I'm being told 2 different things and I really need to know what to do with my furniture very soon. If I do indeed have to live in shacks for that long then I might as well sell my furniture because i will cost thousands of dollars to store for 2 years but if I do get to live in my own place and the CAF pays for the move then it makes sense to keep my furniture.

I'm assuming that the ACSO guy is correct since he actually has first hand experience, rather than the file manager who may not know in detail about what every trade has to do. Can anyone confirm this or add anything? Like I said I have to get my furniture sorted ASAP, whether to sell it or store it.

 

Offline mariomike

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2016, 09:26:21 »
He told me that because I will be in Winnipeg for such a long time, the CAF will cover the transport costs for moving my furniture to Winnipeg (from Toronto) and that I will be allowed to live off base in my own accomodations. However, my file manager said that I will be living in shacks and will not be able to take my furniture. So I'm being told 2 different things and I really need to know what to do with my furniture very soon. If I do indeed have to live in shacks for that long then I might as well sell my furniture because i will cost thousands of dollars to store for 2 years but if I do get to live in my own place and the CAF pays for the move then it makes sense to keep my furniture.

I'm assuming that the ACSO guy is correct since he actually has first hand experience, rather than the file manager who may not know in detail about what every trade has to do. Can anyone confirm this or add anything? Like I said I have to get my furniture sorted ASAP, whether to sell it or store it.

See also,

OP: elsalado
Moving costs after BMOQ 
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,124688.msg1465690.html#msg1465690
"Basically, when I finish BMOQ and I have to go for my OJT and trade training (ACSO which is in Winnipeg), does the CAF compensate me for having to  move all my furniture etc?"

Sticky,
Moving in the CF 
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,29261.0.html
Locked.

Forces.ca
Relocation Directive
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch11.page
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 10:52:07 by mariomike »

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2016, 13:18:40 »
I also have a question related to this. I got a job offer for air combat systems officer and I start BMOQ in January. After BMOQ I will have to go to OJT before my actual ACSO course as there is always a long wait for this. I spoke to a guy who did the ACSO course (which is in Winnipeg) and he said that 90% of ACSOs do their OJT in Winnipeg before the ACSO course. Thus, I could be in Winnipeg for 2 years with my OJT and ACSO training combined.

He told me that because I will be in Winnipeg for such a long time, the CAF will cover the transport costs for moving my furniture to Winnipeg (from Toronto) and that I will be allowed to live off base in my own accomodations. However, my file manager said that I will be living in shacks and will not be able to take my furniture. So I'm being told 2 different things and I really need to know what to do with my furniture very soon. If I do indeed have to live in shacks for that long then I might as well sell my furniture because i will cost thousands of dollars to store for 2 years but if I do get to live in my own place and the CAF pays for the move then it makes sense to keep my furniture.

I'm assuming that the ACSO guy is correct since he actually has first hand experience, rather than the file manager who may not know in detail about what every trade has to do. Can anyone confirm this or add anything? Like I said I have to get my furniture sorted ASAP, whether to sell it or store it.

Your file manager is giving you the safe, by the book answer. Telling you anything else would be irresponsible. You may not end up in Winnipeg on OJT. You may not wait for two years for your course. Hell, you might not even make it thru BMOQ, for any number of reasons.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2016, 13:57:33 »
I got a job offer for air combat systems officer and I start BMOQ in January. After BMOQ I will have to go to OJT before my actual ACSO course as there is always a long wait for this. I spoke to a guy who did the ACSO course (which is in Winnipeg) and he said that 90% of ACSOs do their OJT in Winnipeg before the ACSO course. Thus, I could be in Winnipeg for 2 years with my OJT and ACSO training combined.

See also,

OP: elsalado
ACSO Postings
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,92665.msg1458485.html#msg1458485
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 15:18:15 by mariomike »

Offline ballz

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Re: Lifting a Restricted Posting
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2016, 16:48:10 »
I also have a question related to this. I got a job offer for air combat systems officer and I start BMOQ in January. After BMOQ I will have to go to OJT before my actual ACSO course as there is always a long wait for this. I spoke to a guy who did the ACSO course (which is in Winnipeg) and he said that 90% of ACSOs do their OJT in Winnipeg before the ACSO course. Thus, I could be in Winnipeg for 2 years with my OJT and ACSO training combined.

He told me that because I will be in Winnipeg for such a long time, the CAF will cover the transport costs for moving my furniture to Winnipeg (from Toronto) and that I will be allowed to live off base in my own accomodations. However, my file manager said that I will be living in shacks and will not be able to take my furniture. So I'm being told 2 different things and I really need to know what to do with my furniture very soon. If I do indeed have to live in shacks for that long then I might as well sell my furniture because i will cost thousands of dollars to store for 2 years but if I do get to live in my own place and the CAF pays for the move then it makes sense to keep my furniture.

I'm assuming that the ACSO guy is correct since he actually has first hand experience, rather than the file manager who may not know in detail about what every trade has to do. Can anyone confirm this or add anything? Like I said I have to get my furniture sorted ASAP, whether to sell it or store it.

You will not be the one footing the bill to put your stuff in storage.

When you go to BMOQ, you will be posted "prohibited" to St. Jean. This means that the CAF will pay to break any lease you have / pay the cost of you selling your house, come to your house, pack all your stuff, put it in storage for you, and put you on a flight to St. Jean. They will keep your stuff in storage until you get somewhere permanent (relatively permanent anyway), and you will live in shacks while all your stuff is in storage. This is done because the postings during training are so short, they're not going to do full-cost moves for you to go somewhere on a temporary basis to finish training, knowing you will be posted somewhere else when training is done.

Then when you get posted somewhere relatively permanent (either you are done training, or, in your case, if you have to go somewhere for OJT and they can foresee that you will be there for a long period of time), you can get a "restricted" posting which then allows you go find a place to live and they will move all of your stuff from long-term storage to your new dwelling.


Talk to your recruiter about what's going to happen with your furniture and effects when you go to BMOQ and try to get the ball rolling... my experience with my recruiter was a very poor one that saw me moving all of my stuff from Alberta to Newfoundland on my own dime simply because my recruiter never told me about any of these things and I didn't know any better.

EDIT to add: Also, whether you get a restricted posting in Winnipeg while you're on OJT (in other words, get all your stuff moved to your new location) depends on a few things, which is why you're file manager can't say "yes, you will receive a posting to Winnipeg." But if your friend is in Winnipeg and telling you that people are waiting a long time to finish training and are getting postings there while they wait on OJT, then that is probably the current practice. Just be aware, "current practice" can change. Your stuff could be in long-term storage for a long time.... or you might get it as soon as you get posted to Winnipeg for OJT and secure a residence.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 20:45:23 by ballz »
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