Author Topic: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation  (Read 18042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 181,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,155
  • Freespeecher
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2016, 14:40:54 »
And if you don't know where the bit in yellow came from, it wasn't from a socialist ...And post!  ;D

Mussolini always considered himself a "man of the Left", and Fascism is a subset of Socialism (the "Fascism is Right Wing" trope is Soviet era propaganda from the 1930's, although Stalin may indeed had felt that things like Fascism and National Socialism were to the "right" of International Socialism).

And I wouldn't have been shocked at all to hear Bernie Sanders proclaim "Tutto nello Stato,niente al di fuori dello Stato,nulla contro lo Stato", since there is effectively no other way to fulfill his promises.....
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Online milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 397,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,196
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2016, 15:12:25 »
Mussolini always considered himself a "man of the Left" ...
... right up until he got kicked out of the Italian Socialist Party during WW1 because he liked that particular fight, right?  ;)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 20:52:42 by milnews.ca »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Brad Sallows

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 50,380
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,448
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2016, 16:15:28 »
I see that he was kicked out over a disagreement on support for the war.  I didn't see anything which proclaimed the Italian Socialist Party to be the arbiter of who is and is not "a man of the Left".

The problem remains: recycling old ideas without recycling old totalitarianism.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

Omnia praesidia vestra capta sunt nobis.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

"Yet another in a long line of books about how libertarians are plotting to enslave you by devolving power to the individual and leaving you alone" - Warren Meyer, author of Coyote Blog

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 184,730
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,814
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2016, 18:08:49 »
On today's agenda:

The ownership of the means of production;

The brotherhood of man;

The role of the church.

Yes or no?
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 424,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,334
  • Crewman
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 181,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,155
  • Freespeecher
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline AbdullahD

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 15,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 284
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2016, 19:03:47 »


You owe me a new keyboard!!!!!

Well apparently you all owe me a new audi for my birthday and $2,900/mo.. if I can get like 3 or like 4 sponsors.. I am GOLden!
Recruting Center: Vancouver
Component: Reg Force
Trade Choice 1: MSEOP
Application Date: 09/22/2016
First Contact: 09/28/2016
Tests:
CFAT- 10/15/2016 Passed
Medical- TBA
Interview- TBA
Position Offered: TBA
Basic Training Begins: TBA
Trade *Correction trade is open, back to getting fit :)*

Offline Lightguns

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 24,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,021
  • I live for trout and deer
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2016, 06:44:29 »
the problem is that people might start identifying purely on a regional basis, possibly going smaller and smaller till you get a tribal society and we have seen what they are like. Global thinking is for the relaxed and well fed. Modern society can degenerate very quickly as it is very dependent on everything working. Nationalism got bad rap but it was better than what came before.

Band tribalism is the natural state of man, the ability to see and hourly connect with one's confers as we were in pre-history, as we are in today's social settings is a normal state.  The Nation state has run it's course, it no longer provides protection under law and order because of liberalized justice, it no longer provides economic opportunity because of globalism, it is no longer homogeneous because of liberalized immigration, it is no longer safe because war is now played out on it's streets on it's citizens.  Other than a hollow "I am Canadian" which means dynamically opposite things depending on which Canadian you talk to, there is actually little that binds us beyond the fear of taking the next step of dissolving ourselves.

Edit:  All humans are out for themselves to some extent.  We train them to be something more but we train a very small portion of the population.  This generation is not seeing the benefits of being Canadian.  There are no quality jobs with pensions and benefits, there is no home ownership, there is no vacations, none of the future their parents and grandparents enjoy. The lack of opportunity for the majority is incredible and more incredible how quickly it came about, less than one generation we sold our prosperity.  In 1977 I was looking forward to a life of steady job at the local plant making high union wages with minimum education.  In 2016 my grandkids are looking at minimum wage with high education in the hopes of competing for one the few high wage jobs that still exist locally.  We mismanaged our nation for the short term gain of ourselves.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 07:12:12 by Lightguns »
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 87,124
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,461
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2016, 07:51:00 »
Band tribalism is the natural state of man, the ability to see and hourly connect with one's confers as we were in pre-history, as we are in today's social settings is a normal state.  The Nation state has run it's course, it no longer provides protection under law and order because of liberalized justice, it no longer provides economic opportunity because of globalism, it is no longer homogeneous because of liberalized immigration, it is no longer safe because war is now played out on it's streets on it's citizens.  Other than a hollow "I am Canadian" which means dynamically opposite things depending on which Canadian you talk to, there is actually little that binds us beyond the fear of taking the next step of dissolving ourselves.

Edit:  All humans are out for themselves to some extent.  We train them to be something more but we train a very small portion of the population.  This generation is not seeing the benefits of being Canadian.  There are no quality jobs with pensions and benefits, there is no home ownership, there is no vacations, none of the future their parents and grandparents enjoy. The lack of opportunity for the majority is incredible and more incredible how quickly it came about, less than one generation we sold our prosperity.  In 1977 I was looking forward to a life of steady job at the local plant making high union wages with minimum education.  In 2016 my grandkids are looking at minimum wage with high education in the hopes of competing for one the few high wage jobs that still exist locally.  We mismanaged our nation for the short term gain of ourselves.

Speaking as a "fairly" young person, I don't really think young people have as bleak an outlook as some of you have on this site.  There is plenty of work out there, people just have to want to do it. 

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 424,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,334
  • Crewman
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2016, 08:49:08 »
Speaking as a "fairly" young person, I don't really think young people have as bleak an outlook as some of you have on this site.  There is plenty of work out there, people just have to want to do it.

That may be the biggest part of Canadian and American social problems, and the reason there are so many migrant workers in both countries; increasing the calls for Immigrants.  There are jobs out there, but too many think that those jobs are "BELOW" their social status.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Online milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 397,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,196
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2016, 09:06:32 »
That may be the biggest part of European, Canadian and American social problems, and the reason there are so many migrant workers in both countries; increasing the calls for Immigrants.  There are jobs out there, but too many think that those jobs are "BELOW" their social status.
FTFY, and for sure at least one reason.  I've sure seen evidence the same when I was in Italy.  My broken-record story:  while folks complained about foreigners taking Italian jobs, I saw zero Italians working as live-in help or home-support workers for seniors needing assistance to stay at home - those jobs were all done by Ukrainians, Georgians, Romanians & other "new" Europeans.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,988
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,381
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2016, 09:20:51 »
There are jobs out there, but too many think that those jobs are "BELOW" their social status.

Jobs, yes. Careers, Very few.

I blame educational institutions for letting kids continue to get degrees and diplomas in fields that have almost no career path or are saturated. 

Light Guns is right.  The jobs for the average kid who just wants a middle class life with a pension at the end are disappearing.  And higher education is becoming either too expensive or leading to no career employment.

I don't blame kids for not wanting a McJob or live in help when their parents got good jobs and benefits with a high school education.  And I see how the previous generations have leveraged their future for the benefit of the old.

If I hear one more story about some 65+ year old who didn't prepare at all for their future, is now broke, and now demands society prop them I'm going to lose it.  You didn't prep for your future ?  Enjoy your fridge box behind the quick stop! 

Ice flows are the answer! ;)
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 424,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,334
  • Crewman
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2016, 09:27:51 »
Jobs, yes. Careers, Very few.

I blame educational institutions for letting kids continue to get degrees and diplomas in fields that have almost no career path or are saturated. 

Light Guns is right.  The jobs for the average kid who just wants a middle class life with a pension at the end are disappearing.  And higher education is becoming either too expensive or leading to no career employment.

I don't blame kids for not wanting a McJob or live in help when their parents got good jobs and benefits with a high school education.  And I see how the previous generations have leveraged their future for the benefit of the old.

If I hear one more story about some 65+ year old who didn't prepare at all for their future, is now broke, and now demands society prop them I'm going to lose it.  You didn't prep for your future ?  Enjoy your fridge box behind the quick stop! 

Ice flows are the answer! ;)

There are jobs, and they are not all "below their status".  Careers?  We have a society that has swung towards the belief that one will get a better job/career by getting a UNIVERSITY education.  In the meantime, the TRADES are looking for people to fill positions.  Trades professionals are making better money than many other professions/occupations, but few progressing through our education system go that route. 
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,988
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,381
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2016, 09:33:08 »
There are jobs, and they are not all "below their status".  Careers?  We have a society that has swung towards the belief that one will get a better job/career by getting a UNIVERSITY education.  In the meantime, the TRADES are looking for people to fill positions.  Trades professionals are making better money than many other professions/occupations, but few progressing through our education system go that route.

No issue with your statement.  Hence why I said:

Quote
I blame educational institutions for letting kids continue to get degrees and diplomas in fields that have almost no career path or are saturated.

And

Quote
Light Guns is right.  The jobs for the average kid who just wants a middle class life with a pension at the end are disappearing.  And higher education is becoming either too expensive or leading to no career employment.

Trades are careers not jobs.  And in my eyes are equal if not more valuable to society than other "professional careers".  They get these beliefs because Universities have been advertised and held up to be the only acceptable way forward.  The kids didn't just think this up themselves.
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline Lightguns

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 24,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,021
  • I live for trout and deer
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2016, 09:38:05 »

I blame educational institutions for letting kids continue to get degrees and diplomas in fields that have almost no career path or are saturated. 


Governments as well, NB has created a low income assistance to students who attend universities but not  for students who attend private trade schools.  1000s of NBers can now get arts degrees in XXX Studies at little to no cost to themselves. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 99,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,726
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2016, 10:11:24 »
There are jobs, and they are not all "below their status".  Careers?  We have a society that has swung towards the belief that one will get a better job/career by getting a UNIVERSITY education.  In the meantime, the TRADES are looking for people to fill positions.  Trades professionals are making better money than many other professions/occupations, but few progressing through our education system go that route.

But there is no Starbucks or Lulu-lemon where those jobs are

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 414,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,064
    • The job.
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2016, 10:18:38 »
Trades are careers not jobs. 

That comes up on here from time to time. I think Recruiting calls them "jobs".
http://www.forces.ca/en/jobexplorer/browsejobs-70

Where I used to work, most the generation I hired on with simply referred to it as, "the job". It certainly was not a spiritual vocation. At least not to me. Although when a call went well, it did provide a sense of accomplishment.

Profession, job, occupation, trade, vocation, career, calling, work, employment ...

I had to look it up,
https://www.italki.com/question/115349

Sometimes people will simply ask, "What's your line?"
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 10:43:07 by mariomike »
Get on the bus. Take a ride with us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2lSGnPl-ww

Online Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 470,020
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,852
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2016, 10:42:34 »
Profession, job, occupation, trade, vocation, career, calling, work, employment ...
"A friend asked, 'so what does your girlfriend do?'  I said 'everything but anal.'  Apparently he was asking where she worked."
- Jimmy Carr

/tangent

Offline Grimey

  • New Member
  • **
  • 2,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 43
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2016, 10:51:18 »
There are jobs, and they are not all "below their status".  Careers?  We have a society that has swung towards the belief that one will get a better job/career by getting a UNIVERSITY education.  In the meantime, the TRADES are looking for people to fill positions.  Trades professionals are making better money than many other professions/occupations, but few progressing through our education system go that route.

My high school years where between 1980-85.  If you showed an interest in a trade (including taking shop/tech classes), you seemed to be written off by the "guidance" councillors.  This was in Ontario when Gr. 13 still existed.  Uni was the place to go, followed, begrudgingly, by community college.  With talking to my daughter who graduated Gr. 12 in BC last June, this elitist attitude seems alive and well.

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,988
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,381
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2016, 11:03:04 »
My high school years where between 1980-85.  If you showed an interest in a trade (including taking shop/tech classes), you seemed to be written off by the "guidance" councillors.  This was in Ontario when Gr. 13 still existed.  Uni was the place to go, followed, begrudgingly, by community college.  With talking to my daughter who graduated Gr. 12 in BC last June, this elitist attitude seems alive and well.

This was my experience as well (Kingston, Ont) in the 90s.  And it was perpetuated by my parents.  The look on their faces when I came home with CAF Recruiting documents was priceless.  Their questions were disturbing, "Why do you want to throw your life away ?", "Why do you want to be a drunken wife beater?" and "What did we do wrong as your parents ?" lol

I have to say they have changed their tunes ALLOT but they still hold some of incorrect and unfounded stereotypes about us.
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,988
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,381
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2016, 11:06:37 »
That comes up on here from time to time. I think Recruiting calls them "jobs".
http://www.forces.ca/en/jobexplorer/browsejobs-70

Where I used to work, most the generation I hired on with simply referred to it as, "the job". It certainly was not a spiritual vocation. At least not to me. Although when a call went well, it did provide a sense of accomplishment.

Profession, job, occupation, trade, vocation, career, calling, work, employment ...

I had to look it up,
https://www.italki.com/question/115349

Sometimes people will simply ask, "What's your line?"

Good info, thanks. 
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 86,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,708
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2016, 12:40:25 »
This was my experience as well (Kingston, Ont) in the 90s.  And it was perpetuated by my parents.  The look on their faces when I came home with CAF Recruiting documents was priceless.  Their questions were disturbing, "Why do you want to throw your life away ?", "Why do you want to be a drunken wife beater?" and "What did we do wrong as your parents ?" lol

I have to say they have changed their tunes ALLOT but they still hold some of incorrect and unfounded stereotypes about us.

That's why my oldest son, who graduated CEGEP here in Quebec last year looked at the "arts and social sciences" university programs he could get into and the types of work and revenue it could lead to and decided to go to technical school instead to learn industrial welding.

My wife's and my attitude has been: Good on you. Lot's of good work in welding out there.
 

Offline Flavus101

  • Member
  • ****
  • 12,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 218
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2016, 13:01:18 »
Kids in high school now days get very minimal exposure to "the trades". The amount of "shops" in high schools has been inversely proportional to the amount of new computer labs made in schools. You would be lucky to find any form of shop class in a school built after the year of 2000, especially in city high schools.

As previously stated, Guidance Councillors only know one answer when someone asks them what to do after high school. That would be to go to a university.

CAF Officers requiring a university degree is a debate for another thread.  :P

Online milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 397,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,196
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2016, 13:50:39 »
This was my experience as well (Kingston, Ont) in the 90s.  And it was perpetuated by my parents.
I experienced the bit in yellow, too, so I won't place the blame ENTIRELY on the young 'uns.

I've been to university and I've been to community college, and I find I use more of my college skills in the workplace than I do my university skills.

Anyone pursuing a trade, with a shmeck of organizational skill and work ethic, can make a very good living.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline quadrapiper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 8,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 286
Re: Canadian Values do not include Canada for younger generation
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2016, 14:25:14 »
Kids in high school now days get very minimal exposure to "the trades". The amount of "shops" in high schools has been inversely proportional to the amount of new computer labs made in schools. You would be lucky to find any form of shop class in a school built after the year of 2000, especially in city high schools.
And even those schools, looking around Vancouver Island, that have major shop infrastructure, are hard-pressed to find teachers able (or willing...) to take on the job.