Author Topic: ELB 90 % top up from 75%  (Read 15608 times)

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Offline gryphonv

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ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« on: July 20, 2016, 15:14:44 »
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/news/vac-responds/just-the-facts/earnings-loss-benefit

'Recent reports suggest that the Government is shortchanging Veterans with proposed changes to the Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB). I would like to correct some misinterpretations of the improvements we delivered in Budget 2016.

Our budget allocates $5.6 billion to improving Veterans’ benefits. Out of this $5.6 billion, $2.6 billion was allocated to increasing the Earnings Loss Benefit from 75% of a Veteran’s pre-release salary to 90% of that salary. Every ELB-eligible Veteran will receive more as a result of these changes.

The Earnings Loss Benefit is a temporary measure that provides financial security to injured Veterans undergoing rehabilitation as a result of a service-related injury. It is but part of a suite of benefits available to facilitate a successful return to work outside the Canadian Armed Forces. When an injured Veteran is deemed permanently unable to work, other supports are also available—including the Career Impact Allowance—which compensates for the loss of potential earnings.

No Veteran will be, or has been demoted to a rank below the one held when he or she left the military. In some cases, they will receive more than 90% of their pre-release salary. Changes in Budget 2016 mean the minimum Earnings Loss Benefit payable will be $44,496 per year. Veterans will get 90% of their pre-release salary, or the minimum, whichever is greater.

The Earnings Loss Benefit is not provided in isolation. Veterans receive a holistic suite of services and supports, including the Career Impact Allowance and Disability Allowance—benefits that were also significantly increased in Budget 2016 by $3 billion. Veterans Affairs Canada also pays for physical rehabilitation, vocational retraining and counselling for medically released Veterans. Veterans receive these supports as they focus on recovery, wellness and finding a new purpose.'

I have a confusing question for this. While under LTD from SISIP manulife, the current formula is 75%. The 90% top up is suppose to start in October 2016. But I can't seem to get a straight answer from SISIP or VAC where the extra 15% is coming from. From my understanding the amount from SISIP through LTD is 75% and the extra 15% will come from VAC. Both VAC and SISIP Manulife have refereed me to each other to get an answer. Either the information isn't distributed to the companies and it's going to be a real crap show come October, or both sides are still working out the details and don't want to say anything.

It seems pretty bad, 3 months out and nobody has a straight answer.

Offline Teager

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 15:38:41 »
That's the big question is will those under SISIP see 90%? And I don't think anyone knows the answer yet. A few months ago I saw Veterans groups asking the government for clarification on this I believe it may have been the Veterans Ombudsman asking. They never got an answer at that meeting.

I guess we will see what happens come October. Do make sure you are ELB elegiable and have applied for it even if under SISIP as that may be the key to receiving the top up or not.

Offline Teager

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 15:38:44 »
I was wondering if SISIP doesn't make any changes wrt to ELB 90% but VAC gives 15% to those who are ELB elegiable but on SISIP would SISIP be able to claw back your LTD by 15% saying your making more than 75%?

Offline gryphonv

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 21:18:22 »
Yeah I think its going to be a cluster come  October either way, and may take several months to sort out.

My understanding is while under Sisip LTD any extra income you make is clawed back at 50%. Until you hit 100% of your pre release salary. Then it is clawed back at 100%.

It won't go over well if they claw back half of that extra 15% if VAC is paying it.

I honestly don't see Sisip LTD paying the 15% because their program is an insurance based which we all pay into. It's hard to make insurance based benefits increase without increasing premiums for every current member.

 

Offline Brihard

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 23:51:18 »
SISIP LTD needs to just go away and die. A private corporation should not be depended upon in the delivery of basic financial benefits to veterans.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline gryphonv

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 05:46:56 »
SISIP LTD needs to just go away and die. A private corporation should not be depended upon in the delivery of basic financial benefits to veterans.

I kinda agree with this. Although I'm having a good experience over all with SISIP LTD, not without issues though.

I don't really understand the true benefit as there is a lot of double coverage between SISIP LTD and VAC with benefits. So from the outside it looks like we are paying premiums for a program we already have covered under the Veterans Charter.

With that said though, they are much easier to deal with than VAC, you get answers much more quickly (a day or a few days, vs Weeks or Months).

Offline scottytrek

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2016, 01:25:30 »
Hi everyone!

There has been a lot of talk regarding the increase coverage for LTD eligible member (from 75 to 90 % coverage).  This bill has yet to be finalize in parlement but should be ready by Oct 1st of this year since it has passed two consecutive reading in parlement.
Now, the question remains... Who will pay for this increase?  Sisip or Vac?  Well, if you look at the recent 20% increase SISIP disability cost on your pay stub (this represent a few dollars since July 01st - for example a Cpl would see is monthly cost go from app. 8$ to about 9.50$) it seems to indicate that SISIP will cover that increase.

Now ... Why did SISIP disability cost go up by exactly 20% ?  Well, if you increase the coverage of LTD from 75 to 90 % it represent a 20% increase in benefit.  The formula to calculate this is 75% (or 0.75) x 1.2 (20 % increase) = 0.9 or 90% .
I think that SISIP knows that the increase benefit to veteran will cost more money in the future.  By increasing their premium three months ahead of time, they are ensuring that they will be able to cover that increase.

Well, this my theory since it all has to be confirmed but the number sure add up. :salute:

Offline RobA

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 18:41:27 »
The bill has passed. It was introduced as C-12, but it got moved into C-15 (I think) and it's now passed.

Offline RobA

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2016, 06:12:18 »
Sooooo My Vac Acct now shows the payment for ELB  that will be deposited October 28th under the 'current benefits' window and it's no different. The same amount Ive gotten every month this year.

Thought the bump to 90% was supposed to take effect October?

Offline Teager

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2016, 15:50:47 »
Sooooo My Vac Acct now shows the payment for ELB  that will be deposited October 28th under the 'current benefits' window and it's no different. The same amount Ive gotten every month this year.

Thought the bump to 90% was supposed to take effect October?

Rob shoot them a message about it and let us know what they have to say. I'll be interested to know. Perhaps because it doesn't take effect till Oct 1st the changes won't show until then.

Offline gryphonv

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 03:46:09 »
Just got an update from VAC, so looks like as expected, VAC will be topping up the 75%.
Quote
On October 1, 2016 several changes to the Earnings Loss Benefit will come into
effect as a result of proposals included in the 2016 Budget. These changes
include:

• increasing the Earnings Loss Benefit from 75% to 90% of recipients' adjusted
military salary at the time of release, resulting in a minimum total annual income
of $44,496.00, including income from other sources; and

• fully indexing military salaries to reflect actual cost of living increases.

We are pleased to inform you that we will begin re-calculating your Earnings Loss
Benefit as soon as the new rules go into effect on October 1, 2016.

• If you are currently in receipt of a monthly Earnings Loss Benefit payment,
we already have the information we need to re-calculate your benefit under the
new rules. We will advise you of any changes to your benefit amount beginning
with your October payment.

• If you are eligible for the Earnings Loss Benefit, but not currently in receipt
of a monthly payment, we will contact you in October with further instructions
regarding the information we need to calculate your potential benefit under the
new rules.

If you have questions, please call us toll free at 1-866-522-2122.

Offline RobA

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 12:08:11 »
I got the same letter, so that's good news.

Incidentally, for anyone interested, I've calculated my own, and I'll get an extra $464 after taxes per month. I got out as a cpl 3.

Offline MCG

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 10:24:49 »
From the CAF:
Quote
CANFORGEN 161/16 CMP 078/16 191402Z SEP 16
COVERAGE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CAF AND LONG-TERM DISABILITY AND VAC EARNINGS LOSS BENEFIT
UNCLASSIFIED

1.  THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO MAKE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES (CAF) MEMBERS AWARE THAT AS OF OCTOBER 1, 2016 THE CAF LONG-TERM DISABILITY (LTD) PLAN AND VETERANS AFFAIRS CANADA S (VAC) EARNINGS LOSS BENEFIT (ELB) WILL BE CALCULATED DIFFERENTLY

2.  THE CAF S LTD PLAN AND VAC S ELB BOTH PROVIDE VETERANS WITH INCOME SUPPORT BENEFITS. VAC S ELB WILL INCREASE FROM 75 PERCENT TO 90 PERCENT OF A VETERAN S PRE-RELEASE SALARY. THIS VAC ELB BENEFIT WILL BE INDEXED SO THAT IT KEEPS PACE WITH INFLATION

3.  CAF LTD WILL REMAIN AT 75 PERCENT AND EXISTING BENEFITS WILL NOT BE AFFECTED AND REMAINS AMONG THE BEST LTD PLANS OFFERED IN THE COUNTRY. THEREFORE, IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE ADDITIONAL BENEFIT, CAF LTD RECIPIENTS MUST APPLY TO VAC. EXISITING CAF LTD CLIENTS WILL BE PERSONNALY CONTACTED BY MANULIFE ABOUT THE PROCESS TO BE FOLLOWED

4.  ALL CAF MEMBERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE RANGE OF CARE, COMPENSATION, AND FINANCIAL BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO THEM SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT BENEFITS PLAN OR PROGRAM WILL BEST SUPPORT THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES UPON BEING RELEASED

5.  THE CAF AND VAC ARE TAKING STEPS TO SIMPLIFY FINANCIAL BENEFITS, FILL THE GAPS, AND ADDRESS THE BENEFITS THAT ARE NOT FULLY MEETING THE NEEDS OF RELEASING CAF MEMBERS AND VETERANS. WHILE WE HAVE BEGUN IMPORTANT WORK ON MANY INITIATIVES, WE RECOGNIZE THERE IS MUCH MORE TO BE DONE, AND WE WILL CONTINUE IN OUR EFFORTS TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS


Offline Lightguns

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 10:43:17 »
I got the same letter, so that's good news.

Incidentally, for anyone interested, I've calculated my own, and I'll get an extra $464 after taxes per month. I got out as a cpl 3.

good for you!
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline RobA

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 14:24:06 »
good for you!

No need to be a knob. I meant it as a reference point,  for anyone wondering how much they'd get but didn't want to do the math.

Offline maniac

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 19:09:35 »
Well here is the skinny,  some people are not going to be happy.  Not sure this answers the question on sisip but op brass should be happy but the troops are getting screwed

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/disparity-in-earnings-loss-benefit-for-disabled-veterans-explained/article30256008/

Offline Brihard

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 19:22:18 »
Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever. The over-complexity and duplication of services/benefits is one of the fundamental flaws of our current scheme of benefits. A ground up harmonization and rationalization of veterans' benefitsis needed, with separate recognitiion for pain and suffering, and economic impacts (lost income, reduced income growth potential, actual costs/expenses resulting from injury/illness). There's needs to be harmonization between different government departments, and common definition of disability for benefits and taxation purposes. It's needlessly complex right now.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Wookilar

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2016, 15:13:15 »
Just spoke to my Manulife case manager:

Manulife will not be reducing their payments due to any increase in ELB payments from VAC. The founding SISIP docs state that "all sources of income" will be used in the calculation of any top up amount to 75%, but SISIP is not regarding the increase by VAC to be "income."

So that's good.

It does make me curious on what CRA will call the 90% top-up???

On the subject of Manulife/SISIP. Manulife is just the contractor and while YMMV, I have a good working relationship with both my case manager and my voc rehab coord and as an organization they hae been much easier to deal with than VAC or BPA. SISIP is a very old program with deep pockets that is not going to go anywhere anytime soon due to legislation. SISIP definitely needs to change their model and I agree totally that there needs to be a rationalization of veterans' benefits. There's so much crap been added since the end of the Boer War, soooo much of it no longer relevant, but it's all tied together. To reset everything, you have to start from scratch which means shutting down everything.

And all the politicians would see is the $billions$ it would take to just restart the programs let alone sustain them. And reshuffling capabilities means moving offices, changing position qualifications, new demands in a new system. The unions won't want that either.

Which is also the problem with the life-long pensions, but we already know that. Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.

Wook
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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2016, 20:06:45 »
<SNIP>  Why the MSM doesn't seem to know that is another question entirely.

Wook

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Offline Pieman

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2016, 14:48:10 »
Quote
Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever.
There are definitely some benefits to having a profit motivated corp handling some files. Dominantly I suspect they can provide more efficient and effective support for those who qualify than the government can in many cases. (At the expense of those who's files are rejected, of course) Remember people who get SISP insurance paid into the program out of their own pocket, just like any other insurance company.

However, on both the private and government side, there is a bias in the fact that they are the ones who decided who qualifies and who doesn't. Perhaps taking that decision out of their hands via some independant organization? Perhaps a non-profit organization that will make the decision on benefits, and the government pays out what they decide. VAC and SISIP handle this independently of each other right now. However, both are motivated to pay out as little as possible at the starting line.  Just a thought.








 

« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 14:52:44 by Pieman »
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Offline 3VPspecialty

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2016, 14:22:35 »
Just a heads up, I logged into my VAC account and my ELB payments have been automatically adjusted showing my next month's payment.

So it's worth a look to see and plan from there with the new payments.

Offline BinRat55

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2016, 16:46:05 »
When I was going through the retirement process, I was given the Manulife paperwork with clear instructions on how to fill them out. Do this part, give the rest to your doc. Someone from Manulife will be in touch. I don't remember anyone explaining the difference between LTD and ELB. Yesterday I got a rude awakening. VAC says i'm not entitled to the 15% top up as I am not in receipt of ELB. That kinda sucks.

For those of you in the process right now and are reading this - there IS a difference between ELB and LTD!

My loss!
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Offline Pieman

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2016, 14:27:34 »
Quote
VAC says i'm not entitled to the 15% top up as I am not in receipt of ELB. That kinda sucks.

You may want to consider applying for the ELB. You may qualify and be approved for it, but won't receive payments for it unless you come off LTD for some reason. Think of it as a backup plan.

If you do qualify for ELB and are receiving LTD, I'm wondering if you could then make the case that you should receive the top up too?

Would have to talk to a VAC case manager about that.

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Offline Wookilar

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 09:18:24 »
I would second that. The application for ELB is fairly straightforward and can be done online via MyVac account.
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: ELB 90 % top up from 75%
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 10:21:32 »
Simply put, SISIP needs to go. No reason a profit-motivated company should be involved as a gatekeeper to any veterans' benefits whatsoever. The over-complexity and duplication of services/benefits is one of the fundamental flaws of our current scheme of benefits. A ground up harmonization and rationalization of veterans' benefitsis needed, with separate recognitiion for pain and suffering, and economic impacts (lost income, reduced income growth potential, actual costs/expenses resulting from injury/illness). There's needs to be harmonization between different government departments, and common definition of disability for benefits and taxation purposes. It's needlessly complex right now.

When I was released, Man Life was the only benefits on time and on target.  Over  10 months of misadministration of my pension and benefits, that 1400 bucks from SISIP kept my head above water.  I thank them!
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!