Author Topic: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"  (Read 17301 times)

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DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« on: April 30, 2014, 19:36:01 »
Provided without comment straight from the Info-machine - let the tea leaf reading begin!
Quote
Brigadier-General Kelly Woiden, Director General Land Reserve talks about maintaining a sustainable Reserve Force while achieving a work-life balance for reservists.

The Canadian Army Reserves are an essential component of the total Army force representing the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) in communities across Canada.

“The Army Reserves is an integral part of the Army; we’re at approximately 19,000 folks depending. We’re approximately 48 per cent of the total Army strength,” said BGen Woiden, a proud reservist for over 35 years.

In your community

“The beauty is they’re all across the country in small and large communities. Sometimes you don’t know who your local reservists are; it’s all citizens from different walks of life.”

Reservists make up 123 units in 117 communities across the country.

“They’re citizen soldiers; they’re active within the community, and have a tendency to give. Especially the ones who stay in the reserves, many of them are very prominent within their communities because they can handle more than one thing,” explained BGen Woiden.

Keeping the Reserves sustainable

The Army is conducting a thorough review of training that includes a detailed look at the Army Reserve. The amount of time the reservists are asked to train is being assessed in order to achieve a reasonable work-life balance

“Between civilian life and reserve or military life, it’s our challenge to find a sustainable work commitment that’s able to provide what we need on the force generation side of the house,” said BGen Woiden.

Reservists are part-time soldiers; a commitment of roughly four evenings and one weekend a month, as well as various training sessions throughout their careers.

The goal for Reserve training is to deliver it in manageable amounts, usually through courses of no more than two or three weeks in duration. Once or twice during his or her career, a reservist may have to take courses that run longer. For the reservists’ civilian employers, military training is a bonus.

“There is a benefit to the employer, they are getting a highly trained, experienced individual and those skill sets are transferable,” BGen Woiden points out.

The Canadian Forces Liaison Council (CFLC) is a group of volunteer civilian employers that looks at issues such as soldiers getting time off work for training and deployment. The CFLC works with business and industry to establish military leave policies that are clearly defined between reservists and their civilian employers. BGen Woiden depends on them to be a direct line of communication between the worlds of business and industry and the Army.

Post-Afghanistan Era

BGen Woiden says the goal is sustainability. “Retain the soldier once you’ve got them trained. Allow them to progress, be leaders, take on more responsibility, and in many cases provide that benefit back into the community.”

“We need to be viable, sustainable, and relevant as we transition from deployment on operations like Afghanistan,” said BGen Woiden. “We need to ensure the force generation base in the Army Reserve is robust and capable of providing the training and personnel required for operations: whether that’s domestic or expeditionary.”

Many reservists deployed to Afghanistan; more than 4,200 over the 12 years of the Afghan missions.

“Those that went to Afghanistan volunteered. They took time off from their civilian occupation or their families to be part of an integrated Army operation,” noted BGen Woiden. “Part of it is to keep them in, to challenge them. They’ve gone off and now we need to take that experience level they’ve gained and impart it to the Reserve Force and the Army as a whole.”

Collective Training

Sovereignty operations in the North are an important part of the current Army Reserve mission.

"The road to high readiness cycle including 12 months on, 24 months reconstitution phase, now is focused on sovereignty in the North," said BGen Woiden.

Operations NUNALIVUT and NANOOK are Regular Force sovereignty operations that take place in conjunction with Arctic Response Company Groups, which are staffed by reservists.

As well, there are many local training exercises throughout the year for Reserve units and brigades.

Collective training beyond sovereignty operations is also important. Exercise MAPLE RESOLVE is one of the largest and most intensive collective training exercises of the year. The biggest value of collective training is experience in interoperability, making Reserve soldiers familiar with operations, communications, command and control together with their Regular Force counterparts.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 19:44:50 »
Quote
Once or twice during his or her career,

Try four or five for techs General, that are on average of 7 weeks. When reservist leave legislation only covers 20 days, tell me again how i am suppose to keep my job?
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 19:50:46 »
Try four or five for techs General, that are on average of 7 weeks. When reservist leave legislation only covers 20 days, tell me again how i am suppose to keep my job?

The question then becomes, do we destroy PRes tech training so its nothing like the Reg F but easier to stomach for PRes members, or stop offering those trades as PRes options?

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 19:51:52 »
Provided without comment straight from the Info-machine - let the tea leaf reading begin!

I was Kelly Woiden's COS when he was Comd 38 CBG: an able commander and IMHO one of the most capable GO's in the Army Reserve. He certainly understands pressure of Res duty/civ work/life balance: he had a demanding job in the defence industry, was doing his Masters, and was raising a family at the same time as he was commanding a Bde spread from Prince Albert to Thunder Bay.

That aside, I see absolutely nothing here that doesn't get dredged up, almost like clockwork, every few years or so. Most of it is boilerplate or good wholesome motherhood. My gut feel is not to read too much into it at this point.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 20:47:29 »
pbi:
Quote
He certainly understands pressure of Res duty/civ work/life balance: he had a demanding job in the defence industry, was doing his Masters, and was raising a family at the same time as he was commanding a Bde spread from Prince Albert to Thunder Bay.

I would say very demanding job, with a fair amount of international travel.

Then the skunks got into his house and contaminated the ventilation system.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 09:12:59 »
Okay, who is *actually* in charge of the Reserves?

VCDS oversees the Director General Reserves and Cadets (DGRC), which is headed by the Chief of Reserves and Cadets.

CMP has a Reserve Support Advisor (DRSM).

Now we have this person (to be clear - nothing against him), who is the Director General of the "Land Reserve."

Who *actually* oversees and represents reservists? Is this another case of HQ bloat paralyzing the existing commanders from being able to act?
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2014, 19:38:36 »
The question then becomes, do we destroy PRes tech training so its nothing like the Reg F but easier to stomach for PRes members, or stop offering those trades as PRes options?

They actually just did that, instead of a 3 month QL3, a 6 month OJT period and another 3 month QL5, it is 4 mods that are roughly 35-45 training days each. Much of the equipment that would put us on par with the reg force is gone, sniper rifles, shotguns, mortors, sig, lee enfield for working with the rangers to name a few. As a token gesture our last mod is now C3 howitzer. Vehicle tech is about the same now, but all our training is done at the school with no outside OJT putting the burden on units to get us doing our trades.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2014, 20:01:27 »
Okay, who is *actually* in charge of the Reserves?

VCDS oversees the Director General Reserves and Cadets (DGRC), which is headed by the Chief of Reserves and Cadets.

CMP has a Reserve Support Advisor (DRSM).

Now we have this person (to be clear - nothing against him), who is the Director General of the "Land Reserve."

Who *actually* oversees and represents reservists? Is this another case of HQ bloat paralyzing the existing commanders from being able to act?

I do believe, that DGRC acts more in an "advisory" capacity, as opposed to C2.  Reserve Forces are "environmental" and controlled by the respective groups.  (ie; Army PRes, NavRes, ARAF, CMP (DRSM), etc, etc).

So the DG Land Reserves, respresents the Army Primary Reserve only.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2014, 22:22:35 »
Okay, who is *actually* in charge of the Reserves?

VCDS oversees the Director General Reserves and Cadets (DGRC), which is headed by the Chief of Reserves and Cadets.

CMP has a Reserve Support Advisor (DRSM).

Now we have this person (to be clear - nothing against him), who is the Director General of the "Land Reserve."

Who *actually* oversees and represents reservists? Is this another case of HQ bloat paralyzing the existing commanders from being able to act?

They're under the command of their respective Service. Since all Army Reserve units answer to a Division HQ, that Division Comd represents them to the CCA, but that is complemented by a Res DComd in the Div and a Res "rep" in Army HQ.  DGLRes has no command authority unless CCA delegates something to him. This position existing long before the current crop of DotCom HQs appeared.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 10:37:22 »
I do believe, that DGRC acts more in an "advisory" capacity, as opposed to C2.  Reserve Forces are "environmental" and controlled by the respective groups.  (ie; Army PRes, NavRes, ARAF, CMP (DRSM), etc, etc).

So the DG Land Reserves, respresents the Army Primary Reserve only.

Understood. So DGRC is a horizontal or lateral "liasion" if you will, representing all of the reserve forces together to the VCDS?

My question is somewhat rhetorical. It seems to me that we have too many hands in the pot, all trying to represent "the reserve force."  If each environment has a reserve advisor that pushes up their concerns to the environmental command, then why does VCDS need his own?  That's an MGen (or BGen now, I believe) whose sole purpose is to liaise with BGens and Colonels?
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2014, 11:08:50 »
To further complicate things, there is more to the reserves than the army, navy and air force. The Provost Marshall has reserves. So does CANSOFCOM and CF Health Services Group. The NDHQ Primary Reserve is a substantial number of people -- and they are commanded by the VCDS. Since our reserve force is so complicated, administrating and commanding it as one entity seems to be equally complicated.

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2014, 14:48:20 »
Okay, who is *actually* in charge of the Reserves?
I can help you with this.

In short, the people in "charge" of the Reserves are the environmental commanders and the heads of various Primary Reserve Lists - therefore the army, navy, air force, Comms Branch commanders are in "charge" of their respective reservists (Each has a senior reservist on their staff who are designated the DG Land Res (a BGen); Comd Nav Res (a Commodore); Comd Air Res (BGen); and Comd Comm Res (Col)) . The JAG and DG Health Services are in charge of the reservists on strength with their respective PRLs (They are designated DJAG Res (a Col); and D Health Services Res (a Col)). These senior reservists have varying command or advisory functions respecting the reservists belonging to their organizations and serve as Class A or B depending on the organization.

In addition to that there are numerous directorates and agencies within the CF and DND who have responsibility for "reserve" issues e.g. recruiting, pay and benefits, etc.

Finally there is an advisor to the CDS called the Chief of Reserves and Cadets (who is a Class A reservist MGen) His/Her organization comes under the organizational structure of the VCDS but note that the advice function goes directly to the CDS (In fact the CR&C sits on the CDS's Armed Forces Council).

In order to do the job of monitoring, coordinating and implementing reserve issues within the Forces, the CR&C has a staff and his own council.

The staff is responsible for day-to-day activities and is led by a regular force BGen designated the Director General Reserves and Cadets and a Class B reservist Colonel designated the Director of Reserves. Much of the staff's work deals with the VCDS and other elements of the VCDS's empire.

As well there is a Reserve CWO.

The CR&C Council meets at approximately one month intervals to get briefed on and to discuss issues respecting reservists in general. The members of the CR&C's Council are the DGR&C; DRes; CR&C CWO; DG Land Res; Comd Nav Res; Comd Air Res; Comd Comm Res; DJAG Res and DHS Res. In addition both the Commandant of the Canadian Defence Academy and the Director General Military Human Resources Policy and Planning sit as ex officio members of the Council.

That defines the overall high-level leadership and authority structure for the CF reserves. Note however that "being in charge" is a relative term. Command and advisory functions vary depending on how each environment or PRL is organized. I think you can safely say, however, that the senior regular force commanders to whom the reservists belong are "in charge".

Hope that helps.

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« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 14:57:38 by FJAG »
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2014, 15:41:57 »
FJAG,

Just an update to your info -- the Communications Reserve has been folded back into the standard army reserve structure, and the MP's have left the army reserve and now are part of the Provost Marshall organization.

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 16:30:55 »
FJAG,

Just an update to your info -- the Communications Reserve has been folded back into the standard army reserve structure, and the MP's have left the army reserve and now are part of the Provost Marshall organization.

Ah! The passage of time and the lack of information available on the CF internet pages. I should have prefaced this with "correct as of the day I retired in 2009".

I knew that as I was leaving that all the army Comms Res types were going over to the army but it was my understanding that a Comms  Res element remained with the C&E branch. I'm not sure if that is correct as of today or if the Comms Res are still represented on CR&C Council.

The change within the MPs are a new one on me but I would expect that if they transferred to the Provost Marshall then there would now have to be a new PM PRL. I have no idea as to whether or not their representative sits on the current Council but it would seem logical that someone should.

All in all, the various changes in organization and individual representatives on Council do not effect the general thrust of the question as to who is "in charge" of the reserves.

Thanks for the update, Ostrozac.

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 08:27:08 »
The article isn't realistic as it is. I'd quote out the line stating one weekend a month and 4 thursday nights, but I fail at quoting from quotes apparently and will now stop trying.

 My average month consists of 1-3 Tuesday nights, 4 thursday nights 2 weekends at a minimum, usually 3, if we are running courses and you're qualified to instruct, you can be looking at 4.

 We feed recruits the line of 1 weekend, 4 training nights and then we ask a lot more and state no taskings or courses unless you attend all because of the IBTS requirements...

 It's all messed...but hey, fun right?  ::)
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 10:51:27 »
The remaining Comm Reserve is essentially an ADM(IM) PRL, less than 150 pers in size.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 14:56:46 »
The article isn't realistic as it is. I'd quote out the line stating one weekend a month and 4 thursday nights, but I fail at quoting from quotes apparently and will now stop trying.

 My average month consists of 1-3 Tuesday nights, 4 thursday nights 2 weekends at a minimum, usually 3, if we are running courses and you're qualified to instruct, you can be looking at 4.

 We feed recruits the line of 1 weekend, 4 training nights and then we ask a lot more and state no taskings or courses unless you attend all because of the IBTS requirements...

 It's all messed...but hey, fun right?  ::)

Dont forget the being one of only a hand full of people that actually show up so its six people doing the work of 20
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2014, 10:18:42 »
Who ever gets off the bus.... And it's usually the same bunch.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2014, 10:37:33 »
Too many Army Reserve units are unwilling to take the necessary action to release folks who rarely show up and don't contribute.  Of course, they are not helped by higher headquarters that state, in writing, that Pers Admin is about #5 on the priority list (until it gets bumped further down).
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2014, 10:47:40 »
Too many Army Reserve units are unwilling to take the necessary action to release folks who rarely show up and don't contribute.  Of course, they are not helped by higher headquarters that state, in writing, that Pers Admin is about #5 on the priority list (until it gets bumped further down).

It doesn't help, that when a unit does try to get rid of its 'deadwood', higher levels of HQs (Bde and Area, now Div) sit on the documents for long periods of time, perhaps even losing it in the process. 
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2014, 11:26:43 »
Who ever gets off the bus.... And it's usually the same bunch.

Unfortunately, the elephant in the room is that many of our soldiers' senior leaders ride the 'short bus', which factors in to the decision of a reservist to even get on the bus in the first place.  ;D
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 11:30:20 »
Who ever gets off the bus.... And it's usually the same bunch.

I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012. It might be a problem for all volunteer organizations: when I was in Quantico VA I belonged to our local volunteer fire dept. We had well over 100 names on paper but on some nights we could barely crew two pieces of apparatus. But, when we had the annual summer FD fish fry on the shores of Chesapeake Bay: look at all them guys with "Volunteer Firefighter" t-shirts on!

Something similar, I think.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 11:32:51 »
I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012. It might be a problem for all volunteer organizations: when I was in Quantico VA I belonged to our local volunteer fire dept. We had well over 100 names on paper but on some nights we could barely crew two pieces of apparatus. But, when we had the annual summer FD fish fry on the shores of Chesapeake Bay: look at all them guys with "Volunteer Firefighter" t-shirts on!

Something similar, I think.

Would this qualify them as "Walt Wannabes"?    >:D
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 11:45:17 »
Would this qualify them as "Walt Wannabes"?    >:D

I believe the correct term is "Waltabees"
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 12:09:01 »
I think it 'twas ever so. I know it was that way when I joined the Militia in 1974, and never changed much until I ended up my days, once again, in the Reserve in 2012.

I'll take that back ten years to 1965 when I joined artillery in Toronto. At the time we had amalgamated three regiments into one and could muster twenty four detachment commander sergeants and almost three hundred people on parade. On the other hand we went on exercises with 4 or 5 men for each of our eight guns (there should have been 7) and on one exercise in Meaford I was given command of a gun detachment as a gunner because no sergeants and only a few bombardiers showed up.

Kit recovery from people who simply stopped parading was also an issue although our procedures were a little less legalistic than they are today. As drivers from our transport section we'd be dispatched around the city and simply show up at people's houses, knock on the door and say that we're here for "Joe Bloggins'" kit, walk in, pick up everything armyish and leave.

As you said: "'twas ever so".

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 12:39:11 »
I believe the correct term is "Waltabees"

Gold  :nod:
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2014, 14:21:25 »
Too many Army Reserve units are unwilling to take the necessary action to release folks who rarely show up and don't contribute.  Of course, they are not helped by higher headquarters that state, in writing, that Pers Admin is about #5 on the priority list (until it gets bumped further down).

Sounds about right, like my signature says about my unit, we may call our selves one thing but when we do a head count its a different story. Our platoon has 36 pers on paper, eliminate the every one above MCpl and we maybe have 24. Remove those that say work up in the oil sands and we only see once every three months, and those I call "fair weather" soldiers, we maybe have a pool of 8-12 people we can potentially see on any given training night on a good day. Lowest turn out I've seen is 4, and yet our CoC's solution has been and continues to be "ask your buddies wtf, and get them to come out"
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline Eowyn

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2014, 16:23:45 »
Sounds about right, like my signature says about my unit, we may call our selves one thing but when we do a head count its a different story. Our platoon has 36 pers on paper, eliminate the every one above MCpl and we maybe have 24. Remove those that say work up in the oil sands and we only see once every three months, and those I call "fair weather" soldiers, we maybe have a pool of 8-12 people we can potentially see on any given training night on a good day. Lowest turn out I've seen is 4, and yet our CoC's solution has been and continues to be "ask your buddies wtf, and get them to come out"
And if you were the shoes of your CoC, what would your solution be?
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2014, 17:55:53 »
And if you were the shoes of your CoC, what would your solution be?

Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2014, 19:58:05 »
Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.

Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2014, 02:40:39 »
Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.

I'll have to get back to you on that one, but I suspect he isn't allowed to block career courses. I agree with you that we need to be flexible, but when you have say a section commander working in Ft Mac 90% of his time, who cant keep up with emails and keeping his section informed and sending up returns. Should the unit not consider "okay, clearly things arent working here, maybe you should go on ED&T while your away or release/sup reserve"
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2014, 10:30:35 »
Why was he told he couldn't do this? Why can't course selection reflect merit? Is it a military unit or an employment agency? Reservists don't somehow "deserve" full time employment as some kind of entitlement. If you can't contribute, don't expect to stand in the way of those who can.

Now, should we be reasonable about people who have real civvy job committments? Yes, of course, or the Reserve will be populated with the unemployed and unemployable. But not, I suggest, to the point that it begins to harm the unit. The CO is responsible for the good order, function and efficiency of the unit, and has to be able to take reasonable measures to do that.
I suspect it is a "cultural" mind set.  In the past there has been pressure from higher to get the troops trained up to QL5 and PLQ mod 6 because of the lack of instructors for the summer courses.  In addition, there has been a focus to attempt career management of the lower ranks to make sure they aren't languishing.  These factors add up to an reluctance of denying courses.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2014, 10:37:11 »
Well for one I wouldn't be protecting those people who might not be able to show up due to work for months at a time. Policy clearly says they you must attend one in every five training days, if you cant meet that minimum commitment in the long term, you should be sent on your way. One thing my OC tried but was told he couldn't do was prevent people from going on career courses who were soldiers of convenience. Instead he set up a simple marit list for the battalion, those in good standing with the unit would know about the cool/fun/gucci courses first and have first crack at them.
I can assure you that the NES policy is enforced.  Between the Adjt and the OR, a NES report is generated monthly.  What you may not know is the NES procedure is quite lengthy and time consuming.  The best outcome is when the member receives the first letter, they decide to voluntarily release.  That speeds things up considerably.  Several people have chosen that in the past couple of months.

As well, there are some soldiers make sure they make a parade a month to stay off that report.  Are they effective?  No, but there is lower hanging fruit to get at.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2014, 11:59:23 »
I can assure you that the NES policy is enforced.  Between the Adjt and the OR, a NES report is generated monthly.  What you may not know is the NES procedure is quite lengthy and time consuming.  The best outcome is when the member receives the first letter, they decide to voluntarily release.  That speeds things up considerably.  Several people have chosen that in the past couple of months.

 That might be true in your case, but I've recommended 3 people this year for NES release, both having more then just one occurrence, but in fact a pattern of failing to parade, making BS excuses to not parade ( My friend came from university to visit so I can't go do our BFT) I point all these out, I offer troops assistance in getting time off work,I even offered one of said 3 troops help getting a higher paying position at my  company, they told me they would send me their resume.  3 Months later, no parade, no resume, submitted for NES, 7 months later? Still up at BDE Hq/Div Hq.

 It's not just the unit level that holds up the NES.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2014, 12:20:23 »
NES letters go out with the CO's signature, on the CO's authority.  No need for Bde/Div engagement until release.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2014, 12:55:30 »
NES letters go out with the CO's signature, on the CO's authority.  No need for Bde/Div engagement until release.


 Well this concerns me more, as this is the response I'm getting from my OR... Looks like it's time for a phone call  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 13:06:10 by NSDreamer »
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2014, 13:49:25 »
Well this concerns me more, as this is the response I'm getting from my OR... Looks like it's time for a phone call  :facepalm:

If they are already NES nd the CO has sent them in for 5f release, then the paperwork will have gone up the chain.

Look at A-PM-245; chapter 19 is Reserve pers admin, and chapter 15 is Release.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2014, 13:56:49 »
Perhaps we are confusing the initiating of Release for NES through the Registered Letter sent out in the name of the CO of the unit and the actual Release procedure that involves documentation and acknowledgement/approvals at higher commands.  I don't believe that a CO has approving authority for the Articles of Release given to a member; only the ability to recommend. 
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2014, 14:32:04 »
Short version: For Pte-CWO and OCdt, a CO is the release authority for a 4a, 4c or 5a release.  For a 5f release, for Pte-CWO and OCdt the release authority is the Div Comd; for commissioned officers, it is the Div Comd who is the authority to initiate release.  The release authority for all commissioned officers, regardless of the reason, is the Governor General.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2014, 12:42:57 »
After consultation, the above is certainly correct. The members are waiting on release paperwork, or rather the CoC, two of the members haven't called in to the unit to query proceedings yet despite multiple voicemails.   :-\
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2016, 08:00:28 »
I am resurrecting an 2+ year old thread rather than start a new one, because I think this fits with the topic ...

I'm surprised no one is mentioning all the new things going on for the naval reserves. The mission of the Naval reserves will be Class A, Orca and new NST. The MCDV's are changing 40% of their billets to regular force this year, and the year after 100%. All class of ship will have 5% reserves at any one time in the future, mostly as back fills. Contracts up to a year will be given no more than two consecutive contracts. All members on Class B/C that have a year experience Class C in the last 5 years will be offered a transfer at rank up to PO1 and LCdr.

I think we, Canada, at large and DND and the CF, in particular, owe the NAVRES a vote of thanks for showing us both the capabilities and limitations of reserve forces over the past 25 years.

The Kingston class of ships was, originally, more about "industrial support" for (then) HDIL (Halifax-Dartmouth Industries Limited) and SNC-Lavelin than it was about the Navy's needs or wants and the decision to make them "shad boats" (reserve crewed vessels) was taken because the big, institutional (regular) Navy wasn't terribly interested.

The Naval Reserve, 4,000ish people in 24 Naval Reserve Divisions, was able to provide 400+ (well enough) trained people to crew a dozen small warships, top to bottom. But, as the years wore on the "bill" could only be paid by having, as the NAVGEN message says, "A CADRE OF FULL-TIME CLASS C RESERVISTS WHO FOR SEVERAL YEARS WERE ABLE TO MEET KINGSTON MANNING REQUIREMENTS," but who were, essentially a new, second tier of the NAVRES: full time, at sea, not "at home" training reserve sailors in their Divisions for the NAVRES' primary task: augmentation of the fleet. But, the NAVRES showed us all what good people can do when there is opportunity, which in this case, meant a flotilla of modern ships. If the 4,000 strong NAVRES could crew a dozen ships we have to assume that the 18,000 people in the Army Reserve ought to be able to field, say, 50+ (well enough trained) platoon/troop sized units from within the 11 Reserve brigades, IF they had enough proper equipment and fuel and ammunition etc for training.

The Naval Reserve also showed us the limits of trying to do too much with too little. The Navy is right, in my opinion, to want one "full time" fleet, crewed, in the main, by regulars and augmented by reservists and to have a reserve "base" from which "surge" manning, in a war, can be found without having to build the foundations. I do not doubt that the NAVRES can provide hundreds of well enough trained people to augment ships for both work-a-day tasks and for training. Equally, I do not doubt, that, given the right focus, each Canadian Army Reserve brigade could produce four or five platoon/troop sized units to, annually, train with regular force regiments and battalions, and to provide hundreds of individual augmentees on an ongoing basis.

But what the NAVRES did to and for the Navy, and vice-versa, was only possible because there was both equipment, the Kingston class ships, (and now the Orcas), and money available to make it happen. The Army Reserve, it appears to me, from far away, lacks both ... and maybe more.

The key, 20+ years ago, was that the institutional Navy was committed to making the Kingston class ships at least minimally useful so resources were provided ... sometimes grudgingly, but more and more freely as the little Kingstons proved their worth in training and operations from the High Arctic to the Caribbean.

I wonder if the institutional Army's leadership has anything like that sense of commitment to the Army Reserve.

It seems to me that we, Canada, needs the Department and the CF to recognize the capabilities and limitations of its reserve forces and direct, staff, equip and fund them to do practical, achievable, useful, important things.


Edit: typo

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2016, 08:22:04 »
But what the NAVRES did to and for the Navy, and vice-versa, was only possible because there was both equipment, the Kingston class ships, (and now the Orcas), and money available to make it happen. The Army Reserve, it appears to me, from far away, lacks both ... and maybe more.

The key, 20+ years ago, was that the institutional Navy was committed to making the Kingston class ships at least minimally useful so resources were provided ... sometimes grudgingly, but more and more freely as the little Kingstons proved their worth in training and operations from the High Arctic to the Caribbean.

I wonder if the institutional Army's leadership has anything like that sense of commitment to the Army Reserve.
I would say there are three strikes, not the two you initially highlighted.  The leadership simply isn't there.  'Connect with Canadians' in Butt-f Saskatchewan doesn't garner much attention or support.

....in my opinion.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2016, 09:02:59 »
I would say there are three strikes, not the two you initially highlighted.  The leadership simply isn't there.  'Connect with Canadians' in Butt-f Saskatchewan doesn't garner much attention or support.

....in my opinion.

Honestly is feels like the army is a federal political party, cares about Ontario and Quebec, doesn't give a rats *** about the rest until they absolutely have to. Connecting with Canadians is also difficult when many of our bases in or around major populations centers were closed (probably to get us out of sight and mind along with the rest of the politics behind it) Winnipeg, Calgary, Chilliwack, Downsview, London to name a few. The Canadian Armed forces has lost over the past 30+ years much of its footprint and visibility in Canadian society.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2016, 10:38:53 »
Honestly is feels like the army is a federal political party, cares about Ontario and Quebec, doesn't give a rats *** about the rest until they absolutely have to. Connecting with Canadians is also difficult when many of our bases in or around major populations centers were closed (probably to get us out of sight and mind along with the rest of the politics behind it) Winnipeg, Calgary, Chilliwack, Downsview, London to name a few. The Canadian Armed forces has lost over the past 30+ years much of its footprint and visibility in Canadian society.

Which, coincidentally, lines up geographically with 80% of the Army reserve units in Canada. The closest regular force infantry company to us is based a 14 hour bus ride (ask my troops about that one last summer) away.

The Naval Reserve seems to be co-located with their regular counterparts, so augmentation/ collaboration is much easier from the get go.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2016, 10:48:58 »
The Naval Reserve seems to be co-located with their regular counterparts, so augmentation/ collaboration is much easier from the get go.

Umm no.... The RCN has 2 regular bases (Esq and Hfx) they each have 1 of the 24 NRDs across the country.  The other 22 are very much on their own.

Ask HMCS Unicorn or HMCS Queen how long they have to travel to interact with the regular RCN.  You aint driving that distance for a weekend ex sonny Jim! 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 12:20:42 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline Remius

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2016, 10:55:05 »
Umm no.... The RCN has 2 regular bases (Esq and Hfx) they each have 1 of the 24 NRDs across the country.  The 22 are very much on their own.

Ask HMCS Unicorn or HMCS Queen how long they have to travel to interact with the regular RCN.  You aint driving that distance for a weekend ex sonny Jim!

Question though.  Would you still consider Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City as on their own?
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2016, 11:18:05 »
Question though.  Would you still consider Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City as on their own?

When the nearest RCN regular counterpart is in roughly 1800, 1400 and 1200Kms to the east in Halifax, yes.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2016, 11:31:17 »
When the nearest RCN regular counterpart is in roughly 1800, 1400 and 1200Kms to the east in Halifax, yes.

I was asking just in regards to port access, ressources etc and what not.

Thanks.   
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2016, 11:34:33 »
Umm no.... The RCN has 2 regular bases (Esq and Hfx) they each have 1 of the 24 NRDs across the country.  The 22 are very much on their own.

Ask HMCS Unicorn or HMCS Queen how long they have to travel to interact with the regular RCN.  You aint driving that distance for a weekend ex sonny Jim!

I give!

 :surrender:
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2016, 12:17:54 »
I give!

 :surrender:

Striking your colors, how nautical. ;)  I accept

I was asking just in regards to port access, resources etc and what not.

Thanks.


I can see how that may seem so on the surface; but there are no ships, regular or reserve, stationed at these locations.
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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2016, 11:45:15 »
How much is this manning change driven by a lack of big ships? We lost the 2 AORS, all of the Tribals are gone with no replacements, are they now looking at the Kingston's as a place to put warm bodies? Once the fleet starts to grow with AOR and AOP's, will the manning of the Kingstons become less interesting to the Regular Force?

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2016, 12:06:00 »
How much is this manning change driven by a lack of big ships? We lost the 2 AORS, all of the Tribals are gone with no replacements, are they now looking at the Kingston's as a place to put warm bodies? Once the fleet starts to grow with AOR and AOP's, will the manning of the Kingstons become less interesting to the Regular Force?

At first the RCN needed a place to employ the extra sailors from the Iroquois and Tankers. Although many of them went to the rest of the fleet which was short and at times it was hard to find sailors to fill the reg spots. With the coming of the tankers and AOPS those extra sailors will be needed for those ships and the general fleet. The CT offers come with the caveat that they may need to remain with the Kingston Class for several years before moving on. The end state is 5% reserves on each class, for the Kingston's that's 2 reserve sailors per ship. What I have been hearing is that realistically more than 5% will be reserves because the RCN won't be able to fill all the billets and not all will be taking the CT. There are also studies to streamline crewing on the Kingstons as well. There are many Kingston Class sailors at the units who would love to come out for a contract, but if they adhere to the 5% rule, they will be disappointed.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: DG Land Reserve on "sustainable Reserve Force"
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2016, 12:07:38 »
How much is this manning change driven by a lack of big ships? We lost the 2 AORS, all of the Tribals are gone with no replacements, are they now looking at the Kingston's as a place to put warm bodies? Once the fleet starts to grow with AOR and AOP's, will the manning of the Kingstons become less interesting to the Regular Force?

While we're waiting for ships to put them in, we could always stand up the Royal Canadian Navy Division. It's all been done before, of course :)
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