Author Topic: Married but paying for rations while on course.  (Read 71587 times)

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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2013, 23:51:44 »
What would/does this mean? Apologize for sounding dumbfounded but just a newbie wife posting here.... haha

Typically rations and quarters are linked, meaning if you're paying quarters, you're paying for rations. Quarters are substantially cheaper than rations (rations in Kingston are $550 and quarters are $75 a month I've been told). With delinking, you basically are only paying for rations you're going to eat if you're away from your family for extended periods (awaiting training) and are going home on weekends, or want to make use of cooking facilities in your barracks, if there are any.

Don't apologize, you're new to the CF and are going to have a book of term and acronyms thrown at you. Its good you're here, the threads have all sorts of information to help you get acquainted to the CF world.

Offline td_2013

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2013, 10:05:48 »
Typically rations and quarters are linked, meaning if you're paying quarters, you're paying for rations. Quarters are substantially cheaper than rations (rations in Kingston are $550 and quarters are $75 a month I've been told). With delinking, you basically are only paying for rations you're going to eat if you're away from your family for extended periods (awaiting training) and are going home on weekends, or want to make use of cooking facilities in your barracks, if there are any.

Don't apologize, you're new to the CF and are going to have a book of term and acronyms thrown at you. Its good you're here, the threads have all sorts of information to help you get acquainted to the CF world.




Oh ok! Wasnt sure what delinking meant yeah lol, Yeah my hubby went to bmq a month ago and was told two days before he left that he would be paying rations... he got exempt from quarters which was like $94...I would have rathered that over the $550 lol. I personally think its wild that all are equal now....yes and no... but it hurts people that have mortgages and kids and other things at home as opposed to a kid out of highschool kind of thing. But we cannot win with the gov't... lol.

Thanks for clarifying !

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2013, 10:20:10 »
Just an FYI, there is zero chance of de-linking R & Q at CFLRS for BMQ/BMOQ folks.  There are no facilities for food prep/storage,  there is no time for food prep and shopping, etc.

Also, De-linking is not automatic at every base and in include all Single Quarters. 

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Offline td_2013

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2013, 11:40:29 »
Just an FYI, there is zero chance of de-linking R & Q at CFLRS for BMQ/BMOQ folks.  There are no facilities for food prep/storage,  there is no time for food prep and shopping, etc.

Also, De-linking is not automatic at every base and in include all Single Quarters.

I assumed as much but thanks! :-)

Offline Lost Sheep

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #104 on: March 28, 2013, 18:23:10 »
OK... So I have some more information regarding this.  My PO gave me a copy of an email that pertains to this subject, and was sent through our trade career manager from the BTL management.

Basically, the crux of it is that any BTL NCM students that who were enrolled before 1 Sep 12 and will remain on the BTL after 1 Feb 13 are among those who qualify for this.  (NCMs who are in training now at different units, and NCM-SEPs are among the numbers)

If the member is leaving CFLRS to their next unit, CFLRS will remain the parent unit, and the member will be sent to the next training location on Attached Posting.

NCM-SEP students will remain posted with their applicable ULO and sent on to their next training location after graduation on Attached Posting.

Anyone who is already Prohibited Posted and on their courses (like me), and wre entitled to R&Q at public expense, will be posted RESTRICTED out of thier schools and into their first employing unit by the D Mil C Career Managers.  The employing units will immediately Attach Post the students back to the school to complete their training.  After graduating the required training, the member would THEN move to their employing unit, and the gaining CO will be able to lift the restrictions and allow the move of family and HG&E.

As far as I know, this only applies to NCMs under the old rules.  I was also told that a new CANFORGEN should be out soon about this, but the email was sent now, just in case the CANFORGEN isn't released by 1 Feb 13, so that our staff and clerks have some sort of guideline...

So now, we wait and see what happens next, I guess...

Can anyone point me to the direction/email outlined above?  I am restricted posted to Borden on QL3, am married, and was enrolled prior to 1 Sep 2012.  Other guys on my course in the same boat have been posted as described, but some, including me, have not.  If I can find the reference, then I have justification and evidence to support a redress of grievance.  Of course that is a tool I want to keep in my back pocket as long as I can, but if I can point to something saying that I should not be paying rations, then I can take steps other than to hope that a posting message appears out of the blue somehow.  At the very least I can apply to have rations cost reimbursed (and collect TD owed), although I would rather get it sorted sooner and spare my family the hit while I am still here for another 5 1/2 months.

Any help would be appreciated...

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2013, 11:55:54 »
Can anyone point me to the direction/email outlined above?  I am restricted posted to Borden on QL3, am married, and was enrolled prior to 1 Sep 2012.  Other guys on my course in the same boat have been posted as described, but some, including me, have not.  If I can find the reference, then I have justification and evidence to support a redress of grievance.  Of course that is a tool I want to keep in my back pocket as long as I can, but if I can point to something saying that I should not be paying rations, then I can take steps other than to hope that a posting message appears out of the blue somehow.  At the very least I can apply to have rations cost reimbursed (and collect TD owed), although I would rather get it sorted sooner and spare my family the hit while I am still here for another 5 1/2 months.

Any help would be appreciated...

Lost Sheep, engage your course CoC, and enquire if there is an intent to have you posted to a specific unit already.  Not knowing your specific situation (trade? school?) makes it a bit difficult to definitively say whether you may have slipped through the cracks and something can be worked out, or not.  That said, I know of members who are now on their MOC-500 QL3s in Borden, and who were posted to their parent unit, then Attach Posted back to CFSATE to complete their QL3s.  The difference between Prohibited and/or Restricted Posting and Attach Posting is notable enough that it is worth following up to see if your situation could be addressed by the Unit Posting/Att Posting back to School course of action.

Regards
G2G

Offline Lost Sheep

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2013, 14:28:29 »
Lost Sheep, engage your course CoC, and enquire if there is an intent to have you posted to a specific unit already.  Not knowing your specific situation (trade? school?) makes it a bit difficult to definitively say whether you may have slipped through the cracks and something can be worked out, or not.  That said, I know of members who are now on their MOC-500 QL3s in Borden, and who were posted to their parent unit, then Attach Posted back to CFSATE to complete their QL3s.  The difference between Prohibited and/or Restricted Posting and Attach Posting is notable enough that it is worth following up to see if your situation could be addressed by the Unit Posting/Att Posting back to School course of action.

Regards
G2G

Thanks for the advice, G2G, I fully intend to follow it.  In the interests of full disclosure, I am training to be an Ammo Tech, and so am at CFLTC.  Truth be told, I am pretty sure there is a plan afoot to post me back to where I did OJE - it would be a zero-cost move, and I, the unit, the trade advisor, and (outgoing) career mgr are (as I understand it) on board.  But nothing has been seen yet.  I am a little leery of being too squeaky a wheel, as I really want to get posted to my OJE unit, and want to give time for the unit and trade advisor to make it happen.  I understand and accept that going back might not happen, as the needs of the service dictate.  But it would just be good to know one way or the other.  I have  feeling that I may have to wait a bit for the posting plot to be done, and then apply for reimbursement and potentially owed TD.

Offline Bigglesworth

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Married/Common Law Pay for Room/Rations now?
« Reply #107 on: October 05, 2015, 16:10:54 »
Retired from the Reg Force-Army in the last year, so I figured I knew the answer to this question.

Recently my son reenlisted to the AF, arrived in Borden for training and was told by clerk that he must pay Room and Rations, even though he is Common Law (verified). 

Is this new? And when did it change (Canforgen)?  Has he been misinformed?

Out of the loop on this, but don't ever remember a change like this happening where a course bound member had to pay Room/Rations as a married member.

Thanks for your help.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2015, 20:26:47 »


Retired from the Reg Force-Army in the last year, so I figured I knew the answer to this question.

Recently my son reenlisted to the AF, arrived in Borden for training and was told by clerk that he must pay Room and Rations, even though he is Common Law (verified). 

Is this new? And when did it change (Canforgen)?  Has he been misinformed?

Out of the loop on this, but don't ever remember a change like this happening where a course bound member had to pay Room/Rations as a married member.

Thanks for your help.

IAW  CBI I 208.977,  Pers on Separation expense are entitled to lodging but not rations. In theory one could delink rations but last I checked the Comd Air Force had a rule that pers could be kept on rations for "training" which has been interpreted as QL3 students.

Offline Lost Sheep

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2015, 23:19:11 »
So here is what happened in my case, over two years ago now.  Basically everyone who was married/common-law and joined/transferred into the regular force prior 1 Sep 12 was "grandfathered".  Everyone who came on board after that date paid rations, married or not.

So on my course we had several guys, myself included, who having joined prior to the deadline, were actually posted to other bases.  In my case I was posted to Meaford (from Borden) sometime in April of 2013, backdated to 1 Jan 13, although I never stepped foot in the place while I was posted there.  I was then attach-posted from Meaford back to Borden, where I actually was.  So I did not have to pay rations, because I was technically on TD, though no incidental TD allowance was authorized.  I wasn't too worried about the $17/$11 bucks a day, so long as I wasn't paying the $600 per month for rations. 

Another married guy on course, who transferred from the Mo after the deadline, had to pay rations, which was shitty for him, obviously. 

Note that this only really applies to those coming off the BTL and posted to training bases for QL3 training.  If posted to another (non-training) base and attending training you would be entitled to rations as part of being on TD.  In my trade, people are no longer posted to Borden before QL3.  They are now sending people directly from St Jean to units, so those attending QL3 will be on TD the whole time, lucky buggers.

As for de-linking, forget it, especially in Borden.  Since the shacks in Borden do not have any kitchen facilities (besides a mini-fridge, if allowed), there is no food prep ability, therefore no way to feed oneself in a healthy manner.  As well, the academic thing, because some idiot in the distant past obviously claimed that he/she failed a course because of inadequate nutrition because they were not on ration strength.  Thanks a lot, whoever you were, way to frig it up for everyone else.  Funny enough, there were people who while awaiting training in Borden tried to de-link based on the fact that they were not actually on course yet, but were still refused.

Offline Pusser

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #110 on: October 07, 2015, 04:14:59 »
In simple terms, this all hinges on your posting status.  If you are posted elsewhere and sent on training on Temporary Duty (TD), you receive free R&Q by:

a) living in quarters and given a meal card at the mess;

b) living in commercial/non-commercial (but non-CF) accommodation and drawing daily allowances for meals and incidentals; or

c) a combination of the above.

However, if you are attach posted to your training course, you have to pay for rations and quarters (one way or another), except that if you are maintaining a residence elsewhere, you should not have to pay for CF sigle quarters.

Attach posting (other than to operations, which is a different kettle of fish*) is most often used for new members on training who have not yet settled into their careers.  Attach posting is the biggest shaft we have...

*personnel attach posted to operations get free fish - you don't have to pay for rations when on an operation. 
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Offline Wild_Rover

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #111 on: November 03, 2015, 18:01:06 »
If not already said, as that you are married and have a second household, being that your posting is 6 months or longer you are entitled to a permanent posting therefore if you are on IR you are entitled to Separation expenses as long as you are to be posted elsewhere to be reunited.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/ch-208-relocation-benefits.page

Offline CountDC

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2015, 19:20:02 »
there is that wonderful entitled word so often misused.

entitled to a permanent posting?  No such thing in the military, we can be posted anytime the military decides.  You can also be attach posted or sent on TD.

IRs require you to request IR status if you are posted and have a reason you do not want to move your family rigth away. The first request will authorize a maximum of one year and then you have to request an extension.  If approved it will have a new end date.  You can continue to request extensions but the military does not have to approve.  At some point the answer should be no, fix your problem and move your family or cover it yourself.  Don't know if anyone has ever gotten IR for going on course.

The link you provided is in regards to Relocation Benefits and has no bearing on the subject.



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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #113 on: November 04, 2015, 20:36:12 »
IIRC you can be APd for up to 364 days.  I would bet a bag of money you can be attach posted or TD for +6 months.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2015, 08:30:28 »

Don't know if anyone has ever gotten IR for going on course.

I was on IR for my Basic Flying Training (pre-MOC qual course).



Offline Loachman

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #115 on: November 05, 2015, 12:09:25 »
It's changed since then.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2015, 10:31:39 »
Don't know if anyone has ever gotten IR for going on course.


Yep; I was entitled to low-rate SE when posted to a different base than my spouse for attendance on SLT (not officially "IR" as we are a MSC).

My son was also sent to Trenton as official "IR" status from Gagetown to undergo his QL3 Postal Trg this year (his wife was a civilian in Gagetown and he was CTing from Res Inf to Reg F Postal).
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Offline Griswald

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #117 on: December 01, 2016, 10:17:14 »
Hello all,

I have read through much of this thread but not every message. Apologies if the question I am asking has already been asked, if so please tell me and I will read more. :)

I understand that a married/common-law member attending BMQ at CFLRS is required to pay for rations, but not quarters.

My questions regards the requirement of recruits to continue to pay for rations over the Christmas/New Years leave period. It was my understanding that when members are on leave that either their rations deduction was ceased or the member was entitled to claim for meals that could not be provided (with receipts) because of a mess closure.

Can anyone point me at the order/policy that allows rations deduction to continue over a leave period and/or the order/policy that prevents recruits from being able to claim meals that can not be provided by the mess during a block leave period?

Thank you.

Offline MJP

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #118 on: December 01, 2016, 10:38:22 »
Hello all,

I have read through much of this thread but not every message. Apologies if the question I am asking has already been asked, if so please tell me and I will read more. :)

I understand that a married/common-law member attending BMQ at CFLRS is required to pay for rations, but not quarters.

My questions regards the requirement of recruits to continue to pay for rations over the Christmas/New Years leave period. It was my understanding that when members are on leave that either their rations deduction was ceased or the member was entitled to claim for meals that could not be provided (with receipts) because of a mess closure.

Can anyone point me at the order/policy that allows rations deduction to continue over a leave period and/or the order/policy that prevents recruits from being able to claim meals that can not be provided by the mess during a block leave period?

Thank you.

They don't cease payment because leave days are accounted for in the overall payment for rations. 

I can't access the CFAO right now but I think it is CFAO 208-1 and it says words to the effect below:

9. Living-in members on monthly pay deduction for rations are not entitled to meals at no charge while on annual leave. This is because their monthly meal plan is already abated by a value equal to 69 days per year to account for various types of leave (annual leave, stat and special leave). Therefore, to prevent public subsidization, meal cards shall be withdrawn /voided during each of these periods. The member may still use public dining facilities to access meal service, but only on a cash basis.
Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Pusser

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #119 on: December 05, 2016, 10:59:31 »
What MJP said above is correct.  You can only be reimbursed for meals if not available from a CAF/Public source (e.g. if the mess is closed over Christmas) if you are NOT on leave.  This is a very unlikely scenario for someone on BMQ as the school will likely be closed and everyone will be ordered on leave.

As an aside, meals reimbursed in this manner (CFAO 36-14 is the reference BTW) are limited to "actual and reasonable" costs, which means you must provide receipts (the actual cost) and reimbursement will be limited to the applicable TD meal allowance (i.e. what the government considers reasonable).
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