Author Topic: Married but paying for rations while on course.  (Read 75849 times)

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Offline Langton123

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Married but paying for rations while on course.
« on: January 09, 2013, 17:30:51 »
I will be paying an extra $540.00 per month while on course for the next six months due to the new rules that take effect on February 1st.  This will create an immediate and serious hardship for my wife and kids and I'll probably end up at Sisup to borrow $2000.00-$2500.00 to pay for this new cost.  I've been sent for training as a civilian and was never required to pay for my own food, does the CF really think that this is a good way to save money?  Does anyone else out there think that this will encourage people to show up and apply themselves while on course (getting people to hang in there for courses is already a problem).

Offline Pandora114

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 18:31:04 »
Your clerk musta messed up somewhere.  If you're married, and you're on course, you shouldn't pay rations.

If your'e common law and didn't do your paperwork properly, that's your problem.

If you're on IR THAT is when you pay rations, NOT when your'e on course.  Your clerk either messed up, or you're on IR. 

Offline Langton123

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 19:01:57 »
No mistake, IR is changing on February 1st and I will be docked $270.00 a pay for the next six months.  Separation pay and post living differential are on the way out too.

Offline jeffb

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 19:16:48 »
If he's on course that's not probably not IR, that's most likely TD.

No one here will be able to solve this for you. Go to you chain of command tomorrow to seek clarification and help. You are clearly not the only person at your training establishment that has had to deal with this before.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 19:35:55 by jeffb »
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 19:20:16 »
And Mods, perhaps a move to Military Administration is in order?
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Offline Pandora114

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 19:37:21 »
If he's on course that's not IR, that's TD.

No one here will be able to solve this for you. Go to you chain of command tomorrow to seek clarification and help. You are clearly not the only person at your training establishment that has had to deal with this before.

I know that.  We've been through the IR/TD mill a few times in this house, I know the difference.  If he's been marked as IR when it's really a TD, then the clerk musta screwed up.

+1 on the Chain of command.

Offline DAA

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 19:53:35 »
Welcome to the "new" evolution or should I say, "application" of the regulations.

I was waiting for something like this to come up which is as a direct result of the changes to the "IR" (Separation Expense) poiicy changes which are about to come into effect on 1 Feb.

What is happening here, is the OP is now having to pay for his "Rations", and is losing the SE Allowance and nothing more.....

My best guess based on the limited info is.....graduated from CFLRS and then posted "Prohibited" to the training location for QL3 training.  So they will NOT pay for Quarters but will definitely have to pay for Rations and will no longer receive the extra Separation Allowance benefit that they are accustomed to.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 19:57:36 by DAA »
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Offline HULK_011

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 20:03:45 »
Does someone mind explaining all the new rules coming out. Ive tried reading the Canforgens and the new IR thread, but Ill be damned if I can figure it all out. Ive never been posted, and was only on course for Basic and my DP1, so really have no other experience with any of this.

Maybe a Idiots guide to how the new rules work?

Offline MCG

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 21:30:00 »
No mistake, IR is changing on February 1st and ...
IR is not changing - Separation Expense is changing.  This is a pedantic but significant difference. Pers on IR receive SE and so they will be affected along with a number of other groups (like new untrained pers who are prohibited posted to a trg establisemt and married service couples posted apart).

Offline technophile

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 13:55:48 »
I think there is going to be a lot of hair pulling in the next few months as a " double standard " appears.

There are already instances where pers have remustered and sent on course TD , and others who have severed ties with their former units but are restricted posting.  ( courses over 6 months in length)  This will make a big difference in terms of who will be paying for rations next month and who wont. Even though both members are on the same course ( and in one case in particular, roommates ! )


Offline DAA

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 07:54:40 »
I think there is going to be a lot of hair pulling in the next few months as a " double standard " appears.

There are already instances where pers have remustered and sent on course TD , and others who have severed ties with their former units but are restricted posting.  ( courses over 6 months in length)  This will make a big difference in terms of who will be paying for rations next month and who wont. Even though both members are on the same course ( and in one case in particular, roommates ! )

I have seen this scenario happen before.  The TA/MA was given some subtle advice and suddenly, everyone on course was Attach Posted.  lol
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 09:03:54 »
No mistake, IR is changing on February 1st and I will be docked $270.00 a pay for the next six months.  Separation pay and post living differential are on the way out too.

The CF has released nothing about PLD going away. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 09:24:17 »
If he's on course that's not probably not IR, that's most likely TD.

Unless by IR the OP means posted prohibited while attending initial occupation/classification trg. 

Quote
No one here will be able to solve this for you. Go to you chain of command tomorrow to seek clarification and help. You are clearly not the only person at your training establishment that has had to deal with this before.

Sniper round.
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Offline NavyHopeful

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 11:46:47 »
I'm in the same boat, as well.  However, I have been in constant contact with my POs and have been told that they are trying to contact the people who organize the BTL to get myself and another member at my unit switched to TD or Attach Posted so that we don't have to pay for our rations until our course is completed.  But when I checked into it with the clerks, they told me to go to my POs and tell them to check out CANFORGEN 159(12).  I haven't looked into it yet, but it'll be on my list of things to do today, I'm sure.

Guess it's just a waiting game until all of this gets sorted out, but I am sure there will be countless hours of stress put into this topic from all angles.

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 12:15:00 »
I'm in the same boat, as well.  However, I have been in constant contact with my POs and have been told that they are trying to contact the people who organize the BTL to get myself and another member at my unit switched to TD or Attach Posted so that we don't have to pay for our rations until our course is completed.  But when I checked into it with the clerks, they told me to go to my POs and tell them to check out CANFORGEN 159(12).  I haven't looked into it yet, but it'll be on my list of things to do today, I'm sure.

Guess it's just a waiting game until all of this gets sorted out, but I am sure there will be countless hours of stress put into this topic from all angles.

It is probably these two paragraphs (4 and 5) of CANFORGEN 159/12 that the clerks are referring to (and also what your POs seem to be doing):

Quote
IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PERSONNEL PROCEEDING ON SHORT TERM ASSIGNMENTS OR TRAINING OF LESS THAN ONE YEAR THAT REQUIRE TEMPORARY GEOGRAPHIC RELOCATION CANNOT REASONABLY BE EXPECTED TO UPROOT THEIR FAMILIES. THE CF HAS AT ITS DISPOSAL A NUMBER OF ASSIGNMENT POLICIES (ATTACHED POSTING, TEMPORARY DUTY) THAT WILL ENSURE THAT THESE PERSONNEL ARE PROVIDED WITH APPROPRIATE SUPPORT DURING THESE SHORT TERM RELOCATIONS AND THAT FAMILIES ARE NOT SUBJECTED TO UNDUE ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL PRESSURE. SPECIFICALLY, PERSONNEL ON SHORT TERM ASSIGNMENTS MAY BE ATTACH POSTED AND THEREFORE ELIGIBLE TO BENEFITS UNDER REF B. ALONG THESE LINES, CAREER MANAGEMENT AUTHORITIES, IN CONCERT WITH FORCE GENERATORS, WILL EXPLORE INNOVATIVE METHODS TO MINIMIZE THE EFFECTS OF THE SE CHANGES BY REMAINING VIGILANT FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO REDUCE THE DEMAND FOR PERSONNEL TO BE SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES FOR PROTRACTED PERIODS

IN ADDITION, STEPS WILL BE TAKEN TO ENSURE THAT RECENTLY ENROLLED PERSONNEL ARE MANAGED WHILE ON THE BTL AS TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE NOT SUBJECTED TO UNEXPECTED FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, PARTICULARLY WHEN TRAINING NECESSITATES THAT THEY PROCEED UNACCOMPANIED. THIS MAY ALSO INCLUDE ATTACH POSTINGS AND TEMPORARY DUTY BENEFITS AS PER REF B

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Offline peacelove

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 13:10:20 »
So some units are doing it while others aren't. well isn't that just super.
Since when does it even sound like a good idea to charge married members - in training - upwards of 500/month for food? When they already pay that at home. Maybe they have 3 kids and they pay more. Now, you have a member with 3 kids, a wife, a huge grocery bill and a secondary all ranks mess bill.

Pte bloggins at training facility A has to pay 540/month in rations
while
Pte blogette at training facility B pays nothing

If they aren't going to charge, and they damn well shouldn't, charge nobody!

Offline mld

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 13:49:55 »
I am heading to CFLRS in two days. I just received notice from my recruiting centre that effective right now, all married and commonlaw members at CFLRS are required to pay for rations. They are exempt only from lodging.

This is going to hit the family budget hard :-S
Can't we all just get along?

Offline peacelove

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 14:02:28 »
What is the rate now at CFLRS?
Good luck on your course

Offline mld

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 14:08:07 »
Rations rate is $524.66 a month. My whole family only spends $450 a month.
Can't we all just get along?

Offline 0010bravo

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 14:33:30 »
Yeah....... It blows!

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 17:20:39 »
What is the rate now at CFLRS?
Good luck on your course

Just for clarity before the sky falls in on this thread, the rates are set nationally and only vary for certain aspects (cafeteria vice table service, full vice partial ration plan).

Yes, it blows for ppl who are prohibited posted and I feel for those who have families at home to feed as well. 
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 17:24:03 »
Wait till you start getting a pay deduction after exercises for all the IMPs you eat.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline Pandora114

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 17:24:57 »
Does this also apply to those on PLQ? or just BMQ?


Offline DAA

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 17:34:27 »
I posted on this topic earlier but am now having an "after thought" to the original question.  There are several variables in play, which would raise differences in entitlements when personnel are assigned for training at the QL3 level and below.  The original post doesn't provide sufficient information to get an accurate picture of just what is happening.

So you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

There will be differences and it is unavoidable.
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Offline mld

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Re: Married but paying for rations while on course.
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 17:40:22 »
Does this also apply to those on PLQ? or just BMQ?

The recruiting centre specifically all members at cflrs. So I am assuming that means everyone.
Can't we all just get along?