Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

Likely came from Unification? Really Chief? Why in the hell would there be Command Badges prior to Unification? The entire reason for Command Badges IS Unification.

Hey, anyone with a Forces account can post / comment on there. That being said, it’s your real name so don’t go pokey-chesting.

From what I’ve seen of the RCAF CWO, he’s a good guy and not totally set in his ways. If the other two services are changing (again) then I can see the RCAF dropping it (again).

 

[FSTO]

Hey, anyone with a Forces account can post / comment on there. That being said, it’s your real name so don’t go pokey-chesting.

From what I’ve seen of the RCAF CWO, he’s a good guy and not totally set in his ways. If the other two services are changing (again) then I can see the RCAF dropping it (again).

Ha ha, point taken.

 

[Pusser]

If we are going for traditional, NCMs and NCOs/WOs wore their rank on the sleeve in all orders previously. Collar dogs seem to be a DEUism from everything I have seen. One would think it would be back to that.

Rank collar badges came from unification (i.e. long before DEU). Remember, the DEU only dates from 1985.

It's also worth noting that "DEU" is not an order of dress. It WAS a project that has long since closed. From a linguistic sense, it's interesting that "DEU" has made it into the vernacular as a synonym for "service dress," when in fact, it was simply an NDHQ project that shepherded distinctive environmental uniforms back into the CF, after 18 years of the green bus driver uniform that Hellyer foisted upon us. the DEU project actually included mess dress, if I recall correctly. I find it funny when I see people describing folks as being in "DEU" in pictures from the 1970s. NO ONE was wearing DEU in the 1970s. It didn't exist. Nowadays, if you say "service dress," you get a deer in the headlights look, even though that's what the Dress Manual calls it.

 

[FJAG]

NO ONE was wearing DEU in the 1970s. It didn't exist. Nowadays, if you say "service dress," you get a deer in the headlights look, even though that's what the Dress Manual calls it.

You're right. The unified green uniform came into use in 1970 (maybe even a year earlier). All I remember anyone calling it in those days was "Greens" or "service dress." The rank collar badges came out with it for the NCM and slip ons for officers when in shirt sleeve order. If I remember correctly, when first issued NCMs did not wear the collar rank badges when wearing a jacket but that rapidly change so that the rank badge stayed on the collar even when the jacket was worn.

 

[Edward Campbell]

You're right. The unified green uniform came into use in 1970 (maybe even a year earlier). All I remember anyone calling it in those days was "Greens" or "service dress." The rank collar badges came out with it for the NCM and slip ons for officers when in shirt sleeve order. If I remember correctly, when first issued NCMs did not wear the collar rank badges when wearing a jacket but that rapidly change so that the rank badge stayed on the collar even when the jacket was worn.

I recall them being called, mostly, "the jolly green jumper" or "CF greens," as if there was some other sort of green uniform about - maybe "US (Army) greens?"

 

[Halifax Tar]

Rank collar badges came from unification (i.e. long before DEU). Remember, the DEU only dates from 1985.

It's also worth noting that "DEU" is not an order of dress. It WAS a project that has long since closed. From a linguistic sense, it's interesting that "DEU" has made it into the vernacular as a synonym for "service dress," when in fact, it was simply an NDHQ project that shepherded distinctive environmental uniforms back into the CF, after 18 years of the green bus driver uniform that Hellyer foisted upon us. the DEU project actually included mess dress, if I recall correctly. I find it funny when I see people describing folks as being in "DEU" in pictures from the 1970s. NO ONE was wearing DEU in the 1970s. It didn't exist. Nowadays, if you say "service dress," you get a deer in the headlights look, even though that's what the Dress Manual calls it.

I would love to see the staff work that went into the DEU project and the different options that were put forward. Good to see you again @Pusser I hope all is well!

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I recall them being called, mostly, "the jolly green jumper" or "CF greens," as if there was some other sort of green uniform about - maybe "US (Army) greens?"

Yep. We literally copied someone else's homework so we wouldnt look "too british"

 

[Furniture]

Yep. We literally copied someone else's homework so we wouldnt look "too british"

View attachment 84439

Which is why I find it amusing when people claim it's "distinctly Canadian"... It's not Canadian, it's a Wish version of the US Army uniform of the time.

 

[dimsum]

Which is why I find it amusing when people claim it's "distinctly Canadian"... It's not Canadian, it's a Wish version of the US Army uniform of the time.

Well, the ranks were different….

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Well, the ranks were different….

"Uh.....let me think.... Maple Leaf.... add it somewhere..."

 

[Furniture]

"Uh.....let me think.... Maple Leaf.... add it 500000000000 somewhere..."

FTFY

 

[Maxman1]

Yep. We literally copied someone else's homework so we wouldnt look "too british"

View attachment 84439

And also the Rhodesian Light Infantry uniform with different button placement.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . NO ONE was wearing DEU in the 1970s. It didn't exist. Nowadays, if you say "service dress," you get a deer in the headlights look, even though that's what the Dress Manual calls it.

Not a DEU in sight in this photo from 1975. Just "service dress". If one thinks "soldiers" men complained about the uniform of that era, they pale in comparison to the complaints from those who wore the rig in the photo. My spouse back then hated it and only marginally accepted the "pants suit" that was an interim uniform (not a replacement but a standalone jacket and slacks in a slightly different shade of green and fabric) until they updated the women's uniform.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And also the Rhodesian Light Infantry uniform with different button placement.

And the button grouping reflects their association with the Coldstream Guards...

 

[Maxman1]

And the button grouping reflects their association with the Coldstream Guards...

On that note, any indication if the Guards regiments will have different button groupings on the new uniform?

 

[Good2Golf]

Not a DEU in sight in this photo from 1975. Just "service dress". If one thinks "soldiers" men complained about the uniform of that era, they pale in comparison to the complaints from those who wore the rig in the photo. My spouse back then hated it and only marginally accepted the "pants suit" that was an interim uniform (not a replacement but a standalone jacket and slacks in a slightly different shade of green and fabric) until they updated the women's uniform.

View attachment 84443

She was lucky she wasn’t in the PLA…

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not a DEU in sight in this photo from 1975. Just "service dress". If one thinks "soldiers" men complained about the uniform of that era, they pale in comparison to the complaints from those who wore the rig in the photo. My spouse back then hated it and only marginally accepted the "pants suit" that was an interim uniform (not a replacement but a standalone jacket and slacks in a slightly different shade of green and fabric) until they updated the women's uniform.

View attachment 84443

If that picture is from 1975, then the lighting is really bad. The original woman service dress was not the same dark green of the men's one but rather three shades lighter - almost the colour of the old Sprite bottles - which got it the nickname grasshopper green.

P.S., in the Navy (I mean in Maritime Command) we didn't really have a name for the Hellyer service dress. We just continued our old practice of using the rig's number. So on most days, we would have worn and referred to the S3 or the S4B, or the W3 or W4, etc.

 

[McG]

On that note, any indication if the Guards regiments will have different button groupings on the new uniform?

I really hope not. We are switching to multi terrain CADPAT not because it is better but because it was beyond capacity of LCMMs and procurement officers to keep supply shelves stocked with two distinct sets of land operational clothing. We are not going to stay ahead by ratcheting up the quantity of tribally distinct uniforms for PRes egos.

 

[dimsum]

I really hope not. We are switching to multi terrain CADPAT not because it is better but because it was beyond capacity of LCMMs and procurement officers to keep supply shelves stocked with two distinct sets of land operational clothing. We are not going to stay ahead by ratcheting up the quantity of tribally distinct uniforms for PRes egos.

I thought we were doing it to align with our allies who have mainly switched to Multicam (in whatever name they want to call it).

And don’t give folks ideas to “encourage regimental alterations”…

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I thought we were doing it to align with our allies who have mainly switched to Multicam (in whatever name they want to call it).

Not at all.

If we were actually planning on doing that, we would have bought an actual Multicam derivative and made it cross compatible with the 100000+ items on the market for field use.

Instead we decided ton waste thousands on R&D to make a bespoke pattern that we "own", that will be double the price to make, and will take 10 years to fully implement.

True Canadian defence procurement in action.

And don’t give folks ideas to “encourage regimental alterations”…

Regimental alterations are the norm, not the exception in the CA. Its merely a matter of planning for it. It's small potatoes when you're kitting an individual regiment, not the whole of the CA, just need to specify things in the SOR.